Christopher Israel

@yalberto_97 As I said before, I believe many people who quote Paul do not take into consideration that he preached the gospel to them before he wrote the epistles, 1 Cor 15:1-2. They were written for exhortation, as were all the letters in the NT. They preached the gospel face to face,

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

All of you who look to that image you call your god come to mind when I read those verses; breaking the 1st, but also and mainly the 2nd commandment. Sounds to me Paul had Deuteronomy 4 in mind when he wrote that. The Spirit is what it's about. John 4:24 &...

"The Most Unquoted That Should Be Quoted"

@DrShayPhD things like making weapons could be one of the reasons He brought the flood. And all those angel names mentioned make Jude 5 make sense: "They are reserved in everlasting chains" because of what they did. But in the end, what does all that have to do with salvation...

@DrShayPhD I agree the book of Enoch didn't need to be included in the Bible we have today, but Genesis 6 and Jude 5 back up the claim about giants and angels "leaving their first estate". I read a little of the book. Didn't get to the part about storehouses. But the angels teaching man

30 Reasons the Book of Enoch is Complete Nonsense. 1. Angels leave heaven because they lust after women. 2. Two hundred angels make a secret oath on a mountain. 3. Angels marry human women. 4. Women give birth to giants. 5. The giants are described as impossibly huge. 6. The giants eat all the food people have. 7. After the food is gone, the giants start eating people. 8. The giants drink blood. 9. Angels teach women makeup and jewelry as if this ruined the world. 10. Angels teach men how to make weapons. 11. Angels teach people astrology. 12. Angels teach people magic. 13. Angels teach people root-cutting and enchantments. 14. Enoch becomes a messenger for fallen angels. 15. Fallen angels ask Enoch to plead with God for them. 16. Enoch travels through heaven and sees secret places. 17. Enoch sees storehouses for wind. 18. Enoch sees storehouses for snow. 19. Enoch sees storehouses for hail. 20. Enoch sees stars kept in prison. 21. Some stars are treated like guilty beings. 22. The sun moves through heavenly gates. 23. The moon moves by a strange gate system too. 24. The book gives long angel names not found in Scripture. 25. It builds a whole angel world the Bible never teaches. 26. It gives details about heaven that God never gave through Moses, the prophets, Jesus, or the apostles. 27. It speaks as if secret knowledge is needed. 28. It adds a large story to Genesis 6 that Genesis itself does not give. 29. It was never part of the Hebrew Bible Jesus used. 30. Jesus never told His followers to receive Enoch as Scripture. That is why many Bible believers reject it. It reads more like religious folklore than the clean, steady voice of God’s Word.

@meCal3b You have much knowledge, but it appears your god's name is Marcion. All I know is I would be dead or worse if not for the words I read in that Book 20 years ago, but didn't truly hear them until 5 years ago. Now no man can convince me otherwise, and you shouldn't want to.

Jesus never wrote anything down, and He never instructed His followers to read or follow “the text.” Instead, He promised to send the Holy Spirit, who would “teach you all things and remind you of everything I have said to you” (John 14:26). For the first several decades, the Christian faith was transmitted almost entirely through oral teaching, preaching, and community memory. When written Christian scriptures first began to be collected into a defined body, the earliest clear evidence we have of such a collection comes from Marcion in the mid-second century: his single Gospel (the Evangelion) together with a collection of Paul’s letters (the Apostolikon). The four-Gospel canon that later became standard only emerged afterward — and was actively shaped in response to Marcion’s earlier collection. More fundamentally, Jesus Himself is the Word — the living Logos, the full and final revelation of the Father. He is not a later collection of books and letters assembled by human hands over centuries. The canon is a human product, developed through debate, selection, and theological conflict. So when someone claims they accept “all the Word of God” while accusing others of accepting only “a portion,” they are equating a later, humanly constructed canon with Jesus Himself. Yikes.

One of the biggest differences between the God of the Hebrew Scriptures and the Father Jesus reveals is this: In the Old Testament, YHWH makes almost no promises about an afterlife. There’s no clear teaching of heaven or hell for the average person. The blessings and curses are almost entirely earthly — land, wealth, long life, or destruction in this world. Jesus, on the other hand, barely talks about earthly wealth or political power. Instead, He constantly speaks about His Father’s Kingdom and eternal life. The focus of His message is life beyond death — relationship with the Father that continues after this life ends. It’s a striking shift in emphasis. One is heavily focused on this world. The other is focused on the world to come.

@meCal3b Yes, essentially the same thing: "Keep My commandments." There are differences like your post about "an eye for an eye." But I believe the biggest difference is that I love, believe in, and rely on all the Word of God, "dividing the word of truth", and you just a portion.

Based on everything you’ve said so far, you’re arguing the standard mainstream position — that Jesus and the God of the Hebrew Scriptures are saying essentially the same thing, and any apparent differences are just people failing to “see spiritually.” That’s the classic harmonised view held by the majority. I’m not interested in voice spaces right now. I’m keeping things anonymous, and voice is one of the easiest ways for someone to be identified. Text is perfectly suitable for this discussion anyway.

@meCal3b I am far from mainstream, but, would you like to discuss this in a space some time?

The irony here is thick, Christopher. You’re accusing me of being on the “broad way” and unable to see, while defending the standard, mainstream interpretation that tries to harmonise the entire Bible into one seamless message. That’s the view held by the vast majority of Christians for centuries. Meanwhile, I’m pointing to distinctions that are visible in the earliest Gospel (the Evangelion), the different Greek words Jesus uses for “life,” and the clear lack of afterlife teaching across most of the Hebrew Scriptures — things that don’t fit the usual harmonised reading. It’s usually the harmonised, “everything is the same” view that has the broader appeal. The more precise, textually grounded reading is the narrower one.

@meCal3b It's not there to you, and many like you. The broad way... Matthew 13 ... Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand...

That’s reading something into the text that isn’t there. The Gospel doesn’t say the rich young ruler was lying or secretly breaking the commandments. Jesus doesn’t correct or rebuke him for that. He accepts the man’s claim and then gives him a new and harder demand: “Sell everything you have and give to the poor… and come, follow me.” The point of the story is the cost of discipleship, not that the man was already disqualified by breaking the Law. That’s why Jesus immediately says how difficult it is for a rich person to enter the Kingdom — because following Him requires letting go of what the man valued most. Colossians 3:5 is Paul making a later theological point. It doesn’t change what the Gospel itself records Jesus saying and doing in that encounter. Even if we accept your reading, it still doesn’t erase the bigger contrast: the Hebrew Scriptures tie blessing and life primarily to obedience in this world, while Jesus repeatedly calls people to radical surrender for the sake of the Kingdom and eternal life with the Father.

@meCal3b You're just too blind to see he wasn't keeping them. He was breaking the 10 which also breaks the 1st, according to Paul (Col 3:5). That's why He went on to speak about how difficult it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom. The man loved his money and possessions more than God.

That passage actually works against your point when read carefully. In Matthew 19 (and the parallel in Luke 18), Jesus tells the rich young ruler that keeping the commandments is the answer if he’s asking about entering life in the normal sense. But when the man claims he’s kept them, Jesus raises the bar: sell everything, give to the poor, and follow Him. The story shows that commandment-keeping alone wasn’t enough for the deeper call Jesus was making. More importantly, the earliest Gospel (the Evangelion) preserves a clear distinction that later canonical versions blur: - When someone asks about ζωή (this-life abundance/prosperity), Jesus answers with the commandments: “Love God and neighbour… do this and you will live” (cf. Luke 10:25–28). This matches exactly what YHWH promised under the Law for obedience in this world. - When someone asks about ζωὴν αἰώνιον (eternal life), Jesus gives a different answer: sell everything and you’ll have treasure in heaven (cf. Luke 18:18–30). The Evangelion keeps these two different Greek words and two different answers coherent. Canonical Luke merges them and creates the appearance of contradiction. Ecclesiastes 12:13–14 is still focused on this life and present obedience. It doesn’t teach about eternal life or the Kingdom Jesus constantly proclaimed. YHWH’s covenant centred on earthly blessing and curse through the Law. Jesus repeatedly pointed people toward the Kingdom of His Father and life beyond this world.

@meCal3b Yes. Their message is clear throughout: Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. You're talking like a man of the world. Ecclesiastes 12:13-14

That’s moving the goalposts. The original point was straightforward: the Hebrew Scriptures overwhelmingly promise earthly blessings and curses (land, wealth, long life, or destruction in this world), with almost no clear teaching about heaven, hell, or eternal life for the average person. Jesus, by contrast, makes the Kingdom of His Father and life beyond death central to His message. You’re now saying it’s “about faith” and quoting verses where Jesus contrasts Himself with what came before. That actually supports the distinction, not the idea that He was just giving a “deeper spiritual meaning” to the old promises. John 1:17 itself highlights the contrast: “For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” Jesus repeatedly says “You have heard… but I say to you” because He was bringing something new, not just clarifying the old system. If someone wants to claim that “long life in the land” secretly meant eternal life all along, the burden is on them to show where the Hebrew Scriptures clearly teach that. Faith doesn’t erase the plain reading of the text. The shift in emphasis between the covenant of YHWH and the message of Jesus remains clear.

@retrob4u @BrysonGray Ro 2:5-6 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds It's about the heart, not percentage. And definitely not sarcasm.

@BrysonGray So. How many times do I get to not obey and still get salvation? Is it a percentage thing? I hope?!? Where’s the percentage? In James? 1 John? Hebrews? Help!!!

If you want salvation, you have to obey.

@Gojo1471498 You just say anything don't you, but, I love the Bible. I was speaking of the version you quote. For example, the passage you quoted earlier, Acts 3:23: NIV "completely cut off from their people" KJV "destroyed from among the people" Why water it down?

@Ecclesiite @osasisHERESY The Bible is the word of God. You just don't like what it says.

It was never about ethnic Israel It was always about the Lord Jesus Christ Galatians 3:16-17 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect

@Gojo1471498 @osasisHERESY Yeah, well, the reason I said somewhat off topic is because you're speaking to a man who doesn't reject Him, I reject all these false teachers and lukewarm churches, while you quote from your watered-down Bible.

@Ecclesiite @osasisHERESY If you reject Jesus you a son of Satan, not Abraham.

@meCal3b I know the Father I worship (John 4:22; Acts 24:14). And according to John 6:44-45, you're worshipping something false, because if you haven't heard and learned from the Father, you don't know His Son.

@meCal3b You speak about clear proof yet focusing on a topic that lacks far more of it. But it's about faith. I could go back and forth and write a bunch of words, but I'll just give you His: John 1:17 is the reason He said, "but I tell you." And while you worship an unknown father,

@Gojo1471498 @osasisHERESY Somewhat off topic but, perhaps you're right, or perhaps they're just still lost, deceived, or stubborn. IS 56:5; MT 8:12; and RO 9-11 say otherwise. They are still regarded as "children", "sons", and "daughters." But, as it is written: MT 12:37; 1 COR 4:5; 2 PET 2:12.

@Ecclesiite @osasisHERESY If you reject Christ you aren't part of Israel.

@bannedpastor @BrysonGray So a few passages from Paul is what it's all about? There are two themes throughout that are more consistent than that: Faith and obedience, which are inseparable, Heb 11:6. Gen 4:7; 15:6; 26:5 Deuteronomy The prophets Mt 5:19; 19;17; John 14; 1 John 2 Rev 22:14-15

@BrysonGray This is what the Bible teaches. Romans 5:15,16, and 18

The 3 most anti-Christ doctrines in existence today. 1. Free-grace 2. Once Saved Always Saved 3. The 7th day Sabbath was "Replaced" All unbiblical. All promote sin. All goes against righteousness.

That's why prophecy is meant for believers... 1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

All these 'churches' and those that follow them don't realize they are very similar to those the prophets spoke against. "Geopolitical events"? That doesn't concern me as much as what I see and hear when I read the prophets... The heart of the One who sent them.