Garret.Graves

Jesse, you use a fragment of a verse to make a point that the whole world means the whole world in 1 John 2:2, even though in the same passage there are those who don’t know him, the truth is not in them, and they are not in Him. You take an awful lot from a fragment of a verse, that then goes to immediately point out those who aren’t in Him! Worse than that, I gave you a gigantic passage (John 10) that uses pictoral language, but makes very clear and obvious the voluntary giving of the Son, the unity of the Father and Son in saving a particular group of people by giving eternal life, was clear that there are those who are not His people, those who are His people are intimately known by Him…. And it all gets pushed aside by you. AND you refuse to explain the passage in John 10 as to what it does mean, though you are confident what it doesn’t mean. I went to 1 John 2 and showed the whole world is not in fact in Him, as per the context. Can you go positive on John 10?

@ICHTHUS33 @HwsEleutheroi I'm saying He is using pictoral language, not a clear teaching about things. He is pointing out a truth about God's character without covering everything about God's character. Jesus does this all the time in parables where His point is something SPECIFIC, not totalistic.

@JesseDornfeld @HwsEleutheroi So you’re saying Jesus was wrong or exaggerating? Please offer a positive explanation for those passages. Because He was clear in John 10

The commands are there, just as we are commanded to love. Our culture teaches love is given voluntarily and that is the only way that it is free, or else it’s not genuine love. The Bible commands love from us, to our neighbors as ourselves, and to God with all heart, soul, strength. The greatest commandment and the sum of all the law is love, commandments are not suggestions. Moral inability to follow these commands or to be able to repent and believe, does not take away the responsibility. The Bible teaches that we are unable (Ro 8:7), that we are slaves to sin (John 8), and still are responsible. Jesus rebukes the leaders, though they are slaves to their father Satan- He still held them responsible! Ponder that one!

@JesseDornfeld @ICHTHUS33 @HwsEleutheroi I agree with you. It's in the same spirit as: “This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.” 1 Timothy 2:3-4 Titus 2:11 2 Peter 3:9 The provision must exist for all to be saved, even if it doesn't happen?

How does your interpretation of 1 John 2:2 fit with Jesus direct teaching in John 10:14,15? Where He lays down His life for the sheep and its very personal ‘I know my own and my own know me even as I know the Father and the Father knows Me’? It can’t get more personal!- and points out He will give eternal life to them. Does He know all humans in that same way? What does the passage say? There are those in the same passage (starting v25) who are not His sheep. So Jesus directly teaches He lays down His life for His sheep, and there are those who are not His sheep- He doesn’t know them in that personal way, He is not laying down His life for them, but rather lays down His life FOR HIS SHEEP. Didactic passages like this should be very clear to all believers, but folks like you like to obfuscate with secondary or tertiary passages that are often not really explicitly Soteriological. 1 John written to believers, and the subject is sin in chapter 2. John 10 is soteriology

@Undercross2022 @arva61138 The natural man is unwilling.

@arva61138 So true. Free choice. God rejects nobody. People reject God. 10 commands all based on love. God is love. God allows free choice. Choose wisely.

Even the church-sign guy out here doing exegesis.

When I was 8, my mom bought me a cool Casio calculator watch for Christmas. A few days later, I spent the night at my best friends house, and they had SC Cockatoos. Woke up- where’s my watch? I left it on the table next to me!? A little search and I saw fragments of the watch band on the ground in front of his cage. I look in his cage (they left the door open so he was in and out), and there, in his water bowl was the mangled and destroyed watch body just having a soak, the rest of the band just was black bits in the cage floor. When He saw me approaching, up went the crest, and he just started hissing at me and stomping around. That little guy was nuts 😂

@Dalbodog White Sulphur Crested Cockatoos have no idea how wonderful they are. They just wander the world destroying everything they can.

@sola_chad I do! I make it a habit to read all of it, and I don’t mark them up, too distracting.

Anybody still read a physical Bible?

And without contradicting other passages, and without overemphasizing aspects, yes. Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:28, Romans 4, Galatians 2 and 3. Not about human efforts and rituals. If Baptism is key to salvation, you have Paul bragging in 1 Cor 1 that he didn’t participate in saving more people- in spite of the fact that his whole life’s effort as an apostle is just that. Sure - we see there that baptism is important, and he separates his personal role from it- but think about it. Strange brag right? If baptism was key to being saved, you’d think he would be happy to have folks say they were of Paul, whatever it takes, as long as they’re saved, right? If you thought baptism saved, would you ever even imagine telling anyone “I’m glad I only baptized a few”? No, you wouldn’t. All of this, to add- salvation is personal to God. He knows who He saves personally- John 10:14-15, salvation is not indiscriminate and impersonal. Saying it depends on man and man’s actions is to misunderstand Gods purpose and intentions in saving a particular people.

@ICHTHUS33 @AquinasApologia @5solas Q: do you think all passages that directly teach soteriology must be harmonised and understood without emphasising one and ignoring the other but rather acknowledging all the aspects of justification?

Sola Fide. Baptism is important, but death while being unbaptised, is still saved, if one has genuine faith. Otherwise, passages that directly teach soteriology without mentioning baptism as being key to that soteriology are false. For instance Romans 10:9-10- directly about salvation.

@ICHTHUS33 @AquinasApologia @5solas So not sola fide. One must repent and believe baptised for the forgiveness of sins.

That’s a failed argument, which assumes that Scripture is a product of a church, rather than a product of Gods revelation to man that serves a purpose. Jesus constant refrain was “Have you not read…” Jesus answer to Satan? Scripture. Jesus expected the religious leaders of His age to know Him why? Prophecy, as found in Scripture. Through Scripture, we know, for instance, that both the Roman Catholic and EO churches are no longer Apostolic- but only claim to be. You no longer teach what the Apostles taught in key areas. You’ll be held accountable to Scripture, so read it

@LizzieMarbach lmfao this woman has still not figured out that sola scriptura cannot determine what scripture is for protestants without relying on the original church 😂

The Catholics/EO are treating textual variants as a slam dunk against scripture in the same way Reddit atheists do. It is actually really sad.

@Alan4x7 I’ve gotten root to spout heresy pretty quickly. Judas could have chosen to repent, and not betray Jesus, God would have had to find another way. IIRC.

🎵Jesus sometimes fails🎵 🎵Jesus sometimes fails🎵 🎵Heav'n and earth may pass away🎵 🎵But Jesus sometimes fails🎵

@maxamir @5solas Oh! I misread you- I read you as saying man has it within His power and will to choose to be saved, but youre showing the opposite , which is biblical. Sorry, my reading comprehension is off today friend

@ICHTHUS33 @5solas the Gospel indeed has with it the command for all to repent and believe and mockery is only implied if it is proclaimed as it is just about everywhere today, that man has it within his own power and will to choose to be saved.

@maxamir @5solas That’s not what Jesus taught.

@LloydLegalist Shoulder pads are hilarious in that era

Even though they’ve broken up, I loved Hall and Oats.

@AquinasApologia @5solas False. It’s commanded. Repent and believe. Natural man is not willing to do so.

@5solas Repenting sounds like one of those works things you're saying we shouldn't worry about doing.

@maxamir @5solas Moral inability doesn’t make the call to repent and believe mockery. As Jesus said- they aren’t willing to come to Him. What makes them willing? Being born from above- the rest? Not willing- still, the command is there. It’s just, it’s not mockery!

@5solas the Gospel is a proclamation to all, not an invitation to all for to some it is an aroma of life unto life and to others it is an aroma of death unto death.

I’m about halfway through it and reading it (BoM) daily. So I’m seeing what you have, to learn. For one, if it’s written in the 1820’s, like I’d say, then prophesy is irrelevant, as it’s all looking at the Bible and pulling out what’s needed-that’s not prophesy, that’s reading and copying. Furthermore, as a believer who has read all books of the Bible many many times, I’m seeing fragments of Jesus statements and Paul’s statements in the mouth of folks supposedly 600- 150 BC. As well as the Pre-Christ Christianity that they seem to half forget exists, in a pseudo Jewish-Christian society. I’m seeing Armenian theology, whereas I’m a Calvinist, and I’d make the argument that Armenian theology is not biblical and therefore, Neither is BoM. I’m seeing that the all the books have tell tale signs of single authorship. Nephi sounds like Jacob sounds like Enos sounds like Jarom sounds like Omni- etc. anyway, I’ll continue. Take care, God bless

@ICHTHUS33 @Lostcalifornio He was preaching their destruction. They were destroyed you’re argument that accurate prophecies make the Book of Mormon fake is bizarre and silly

When you try to tell me what’s wrong with the Book of Mormon when you’ve never read it and refuse to read it you’ve just told me your opinion on it is uneducated and worthless and you don’t care about sounding dumb on a topic

//or the mysterious power of the human will to do whatever it wants free from all ultimate influence from everything else?// Free from influence doesn’t exist, in the biblical portrayal of free will. It absolutely does in the opinion of our culture, but not the Bible. I was raised by non believers with our western cultures view of libertarian free will. The Bible does not share that view. God is hands on our wills exactly when He wants to be, and no one can say when that is, so no one can pretend that LFW is in play in their lives at any time, period. The heart of man plans his way, But Yahweh directs his steps. (Proverbs 16:9, LSB) Just an example of an impossible proverb to an LFW type.

@ReformedCaio But Caio, what mystery does the Bible better support, how God can be the creator and determiner of all things while remaining without sin, or the mysterious power of the human will to do whatever it wants free from all ultimate influence from everything else?

Guy who complains when his theological opponents appeal to mystery but then grounds his entire view of man's freedom on "the mystery of libertarian freedom."

Ah yeah, he’s a slippery one, that Joseph Smith, I see he put the exile in there. Jews did continue to inhabit the land, as Scripture points out. Jeremiah promised survival and rebuilding- why flee to a ‘better land’? So much emphasis on the promised land starting with Abraham, yet all of the sudden there’s a better land 😂. Keeping in mind as well that the promised land is still promised through all of the Babylon exile

@ICHTHUS33 @Lostcalifornio You don’t even know what the verse you’re citing says 😔