John and Anne-Marie 🇫🇷🇪🇺🇬🇧 #proEU

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Nowhere does the Bible say that the Bible is the word of God. That would tend towards bibli-idolatry. BTW, please don't quote a fake to support bibli-idolatry. God-given scripture is useful for teaching. That does not say "the Bible". However God's word can be found in it.

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad I take no vain pride in doing my normal due dilligence objectively to do what everyone should do anyway. ALL true CHRISTians should follow the Christ. Sadly, Christianity quickly morphed into "Paulianity", the adepts blindly following both genuine and fake works.

The Protestant Reformation was the beginning of the decay of Western civilization We’re still reaping its fruits

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad No, no, no. You cannot escape the imposed condition of not changing anything in the book written by John of Patmos. It is clearly stated in these 2 verses. You cannot deny it.

@JohnAnneMarie2 @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Again, you are taking this book to be literal when it's not. These verses emphasize the sacredness of God’s revealed truth and the serious consequences of distorting it. Revelation affirms salvation through faith in Christ (Revelation 1:5–6; 3:20–21).

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad I am not blinded. I go by what Jesus taught and do my due dilligence to the best of my abilities concerning man's teaching. Doing ones dilligence requires actively seeking the truth as taught by Jesus... not just saying amen to men!

@JohnAnneMarie2 @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Have you asked Grok any of these questions? Or Google? Do you believe you have "eyes to see and ears to hear" when it comes to these subjects? Or have you bought into this idea that the NT has been usurped to the point where you're blinded by your rejection of them?

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad I have the utmost proof from the early Christian writings themselves. Jesus' sayings can be found in the synoptic gospels, Q and the Gospel of Thomas. Mark, Q, and Thomas being the earlier ones by consensus.

I'm not trying to "wriggle" out of anything. Maybe you could think more carefully about your rhetoric? You call certain books of the bible "fake" when you have no proof of this other than your own understanding or the understanding of others who hold your same ideology and then claim that people are trying to "wriggle" out of answering your question when you disagree with them. You have clearly only listened to those who you agree with and push back on anyone who disagrees with your conclusions. Again, the bible is a book of FAITH. If you don't have faith that the bible is real in its current state, there really is no hope in reaching you. I never said the book of Revelation was written TO GOD. Revelation 1:1 doesn't expound on the meaning of the word "shortly". Typically, if there was a time frame that was in mind, there would be something in the prophecy about it. "Scholars note that “shortly” here does not necessarily mean “within a few years” in human terms, but rather that once the events start, they will happen quickly in sequence. For example, the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was “shortly” after the prophecy began, but the full fulfillment of Revelation’s vision is still future. It is a call to watchfulness, reflecting the urgency of God’s plan and the rapidity with which His purposes will unfold when they begin." Revelation 1:1 - Understanding Revelation's "Shortly": End-Time Prophecy for His Church theberean.org/index.cfm/main…

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad You dodged this yet again. The first verse is 100% literal. There is nowhere anywhere in the NT where tachos means thousands of years... so false prophesy! Last verses mean false condition for salvation. The redacted version we have changes the original.

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad 3) I thought I was quite clear as was John of Patmos and HIS book. The redaction that we have of his book is not the original. So, ironically, original book has been changed/corrected by redactors anyway. BTW, originally, Martin Luther wanted it to be suppressed from the canon

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad 2) John of Patmos made "not changing anything in his book" a condition of salvation! This is outrageous! Surely you know what Jesus said about salvation. Certainly nothing about changing anything in John of Patmos' book! .../...

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad OK, I'll be brief. 1. The prophesy of John of Patmos stated that the events would take place "tachos" ("shortly" KJV). Some have not, even after ~2000 years). 2. Jesus condition for salvation was not about changing words in John's book. 3. The version we have IS changed, anyway

Revelation 1:1 1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, Revelation 22:18-19 18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll. The scroll spoken of is specifically of Revelation alone. Not the entire bible. A scroll was a specific length during this time, and one scroll couldn't have held the entire bible alone. Most scrolls were up to about 35 feet long. The Great Isaiah scroll found in the Dead Sea Scrolls was around 24 feet long. John wasn't changing anything in the bible with this revelation. It is strictly prophetic and symbolic. Unlike Mohammed, John wasn't trying to control the narrative and change it to his specifications in order to make the bible in HIS image, he was giving future prophecies that we should look for at the end of days. It never changed anything fundamental about scripture. It's really just an expansion of Isaiah as it draws a lot of the same imagery from that book. Everything in the book draws from bits and pieces of the OT. I watched a really interesting video on Isaiah that was really quite remarkable. I'm going to add it so you can watch it if you'd like. Maybe you can let me know what you think of it. youtu.be/yBCWUyNLy-Q

@HeidiBachram They are just anti-Jew pro-Islam attention-seeking trouble-makers who could not care less about thousands of Christians being killed in other countries.

Spanish Flotilla members arriving in Bilbao airport were blocking the arrivals gate posing for photos and police tried to move them and they got violent. So police DRAGGED them out. This is who they are. They have cause chaos everywhere.

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Read Rev 1.1 and 22.18-19 and tell me it you understand that.

Revelation is not a meant to be read LITERALLY like the rest of the bible. It's actually called "THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST" and is full of prophesy and revelatory imagery, much like Isaiah which it heavily draws from, another book I struggle with. It's hard to understand because it uses difficult to imagine complex symbolism, apocalyptic imagery, and prophetic language rooted in historical and cultural contexts of the time it was written. I have a hard time understanding it myself. I need people who have spent years dedicating their lives trying to suss out what it means to help me understand all the symbolism shown throughout. You'll have to explain why you believe it "condemns itself". Lots of people have misunderstood or misinterpreted it for centuries. The Catholics believe the "Queen of Heaven" spoken of in Jeremiah, and alluded to in Revelation, is Jesus's mother, Mary, but it's not. It's symbolic of the CHURCH. Those who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit spread across the entire globe, with no particular organizational denomination attached to them. The one thing a lot of modern-day Christians fail to realize is that the bible wasn't written for US. It was written for the people of the 1st century which makes it hard for us, who are so far removed from living like the people in those times, to comprehend a lot of the meaning. Much of the bible was also written with a lot of poetry. A type of reading I am completely unfamiliar with. I feel like I'm reading a book filled with typographical errors because it's almost like I stutter when reading it. Poetry is just not in my wheelhouse, and my brain isn't used to reading things that way making it seem or feel mechanical and unrealistic. Maybe you suffer from the same problem, but haven't recognized it as such? Jesus spoke in parables, a lot, because He knew that those who WOULD understand had the "ears to hear and the eyes to see" while those who didn't, wouldn't understand what he was talking about. God wants us to be curious about Him and try to understand what He's speaking to us about. Those who shrug their shoulders at the parable and walk away are not interested in what God has to say, have no interest in living a Godly life. They're happy immersed in the world. It's good that you're curious, but don't allow your need for perfect understanding destroy the good the bible represents as a whole. We aren't meant to understand everything perfectly this side of Heaven. The one thing the bible teaches ad nauseum is the fact that we must have FAITH that the bible is what it says it is and live our lives according to its teachings, regardless of the people who may or may not have written it down. If God cannot control the words that He had people author for Him and canonized to His specifications, then we don't have a very powerful God.

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Terre, after many requests, please answer my concrete question about Revelation. It is clear cut because it condemns itself.

I didn't say that I believe the bible is GOD. GOD is GOD. The bible is His word. It is His template to guide humanity to traverse in the best possible way, a sinful and corrupt world. Do you think it's in your best interest to render judgment on how people perceive the bible? Is everyone who lives their lives through the biblical worldview worshipping the bible in your eyes? Was Jesus treating the bible as God whenever he referred back to it when he preached His sermons? Jesus said the words "𝒉𝒂𝒗𝒆 𝒚𝒐𝒖 𝒏𝒐𝒕 𝒓𝒆𝒂𝒅" many times throughout His ministry. He didn't once say, "have you read what Daniel, Samuel or Ezekiel said?"

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Nice to have a quick reply from you! It's long and I cannot reply to everything. Basically, you believe that the Bible is God. Now, concretely, tell my why you believe the book of Revelation, as it proves itself to be false and contrary to Jesus' teaching?

In the most basic answer that I can give you regarding how I verify the authenticity of the bible is this. I don't waste my time trying to verify the bible's authenticity or debunking a library of books written over 1500 years by over 40 different authors whose words were all soundly vetted and interpreted to be in line with Jesus teachings prior to them being added to canon by men who know far more than I ever could about the origins of each book. While you may believe that the Timothy epistles are "fake", I don't. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 reads: 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. How can you take Jesus's sayings as "Gospel Truth"? Jesus never wrote a single word of the Gospel. We don't know with any certainty who wrote either John or Matthew. Luke and Mark had never actually met Jesus. They took the word of the people who had known Him. Most of the Gospels weren't written during Jesus's lifetime in the flesh. They were written much later. Both Mark and Luke knew Paul and were discipled by him. How can you trust anything those 2 had to say since they were so heavily influenced by him? The comparison to the way Acts was written and the way the pastoral epistles were written are very similar. They could have been the same writer. We also know that Luke acted as Paul's secretary. That being said, the bible was written by GOD through His inspiration of men. There are many books in both the OT and the NT that we're not 100% certain of their authorship. That doesn't mean we don't believe them by virtue of us not having a firm grasp on authorship. We have no idea who wrote Hebrews. You can choose to believe in the authenticity of the bible or not. That is your prerogative. Once you allow one little thread to be pulled, you start running into the problem of the garment unraveling altogether. This is what deconstructionists do. They pick apart the bible until it no longer has any meaning. You can do the same thing with words. I think of the bible in much the same way that Voddie Baucham did. He said this: "I choose to believe the Bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eyewitnesses during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses. They reported supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies and claimed that their writings are divine rather than human in origin." He expounds on what he means in the following clip from one of his sermons. youtu.be/X8ckDnUjV7c

@EX_EV0LUTIONIST @JasonR32169 @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Terre, before we go any further, can you tell me how you verify the authenticity or truth of different NT books or passages? Personally, I take Jesus's sayings as gospel truth. Narratives require investigation if found "suspicious". Epistles & Revelation need verification.

Are you picking and choosing things you want to believe using your own understanding? Where is it that you're supposed to be "SEEKING TRUTH"? I'm not sure Jesus thought that the apostles were supposed to "seek truth" from the world. Every word of the bible, including the epistles you question, are in line with the rest of the bible. The epistles you question were canonized by men who were far more theologically capable and much closer to the subject matter than we are. Even the people who question who wrote them don't claim they're "FAKE". Unfortunately, nothing anyone can point you to that will even remotely get you close to accepting them as belonging in the bible if you don't wish to believe it. We can point to other epistles from other apostles, such as 2 Peter 3:15-16 where he calls Paul's epistles scripture, but you think that epistle is FAKE. Why do you believe they're "FAKE"? Is it possible that they were dictated by Paul and then a scribe wrote them down after the fact, using his own vernacular instead of Paul's? Or maybe it's the fact that those epistles were written when he was older and experience had taught him a thing or two and his wording was a bit harsher when dealing with problematic churches he'd planted. The epistles that Paul wrote aren't in chronological order in the bible. They go from the longest to the shortest. Maybe if you read them in the proper order in which they were written, they might give you a different perspective. I'll leave it at this. BILLIONS of people across the globe believe every word of the bible. It's up to you if you want to trust that the Lord has provided you with the truth. If you choose not to, that's your prerogative. God will not force you to do anything you don't wish to do, and He won't force you to be in His presence if you choose not to believe in His word. John 14:6 I am the way, the 𝒕𝒓𝒖𝒕𝒉 and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Psalm 25:5 5 Guide me in your truth and teach me, for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long.

@JasonR32169 @EX_EV0LUTIONIST @AshMinnehan @TheStaad BTW, you didn't answer my question about John of Patmos' book of Revelation. It is another "problematic" book. Do you accept it as the truth or not and why?

@JohnAnneMarie2 @EX_EV0LUTIONIST @AshMinnehan @TheStaad If you haven't noticed, I'm not the one making claims about it?

@JasonR32169 @EX_EV0LUTIONIST @AshMinnehan @TheStaad You are claiming that a proven fake is not a fake. Do you also claim the Earth is flat and stationary in a geocentric system, when this has also been proven to be false?

@JasonR32169 @EX_EV0LUTIONIST @AshMinnehan @TheStaad No presumption! Books written after the death of the person claiming to be the author is one of many clues. Vocabulary, syntax, historical context, style... are others. Due dilligence, not presumption, either way, is required.

@JohnAnneMarie2 @EX_EV0LUTIONIST @AshMinnehan @TheStaad What about your flawed and leading question that presumes that certain books are fakes? Have you stopped beating your wife?

@JasonR32169 @EX_EV0LUTIONIST @AshMinnehan @TheStaad Is your argument here that the omnipotent creator "managed to get everything into a book and therefore everything in it is true. The same "reasoning" could apply to any book or any doctrine, even including the Koran. Jesus told us to SEEK truth, not "swallow" indiscriminately.

@JohnAnneMarie2 @EX_EV0LUTIONIST @AshMinnehan @TheStaad I haven't felt led to go down that rabbit hole so for now I'll trust that the Omnipotent, Sovereign, Creator and Sustainer of every molecule in the universe managed to get what wanted in a comparatively little book called the bible, so that His children wouldn't be led astray.