darth maul🇨🇿🇰🇷

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 damn it, this is because I dont understand marx's ltv (of course, since I'm not a marxist)

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 But are T1 and T0 really important?

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 Another factory manager might actually have dispatched an industrial espionage among technician...

@lainiwakura2008 @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 You should have told me that first.

@lainiwakura2008 @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 In my example the builder of the robot is the owner of the factory. He invents a replacement for human labour. Untested in T0. Unknown in the market in T0 outside that one factory.

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 However, this is merely a change in production tools, so it does not require the level of risk or innovation required to create an entirely new social media platform.

@lainiwakura2008 @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 No idea. I don’t ask myself why I didn’t invent X or Facebook. I just didn’t.

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 The innovation of social media and robots is different.

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 What I'm saying is that robot companies will thoroughly verify the innovativeness of the robot before launching it. If so, you will at least be able to see that test. The same goes for other manufacturers.

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 Well, I think machines are different in that there is usually room to quantify their performance.

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 What I mean is, if you are at the level where you know that robot at t0, then at least other producers are aware of its existence, which means that producers also have room to gamble!

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 And at t0, for some reason you became aware of that robot; why wouldn't another producer see it and try to take a risk?

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 At the very least, if you are purchasing that robot, why wouldn't the other factory do the same? In this situation, the manufacturer of the robot will naturally try to promote its performance widely and attempt to sell it to other factories simultaneously.

@lainiwakura2008 @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 In T1 everyone rushes in because the outcome is now known

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 Don't you usually buy machines knowing their performance?

@lainiwakura2008 @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 Sure. In T1. In T0 we’re not even sure it works. It does. Where is the surplus value coming from?

@KellMorrHK @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 To be honest, in that situation, wouldn't even labor factory be converted to robots? Of course, ltv has been disproven.

@marxiananark @Kosmos_777l @lettera1cb @df_bg42198 @commiejunior161 Nope. Still the capitalist mode of production with Labour still performing in the sphere. But one factory has zero labour. So where does the surplus come from. You canny explain it. LTV busted.

@KellMorrHK @LocalWobbly @malcolm_reavell @cesifoti Well, to be precise, that probably varies by industry anyway...

@lainiwakura2008 @LocalWobbly @malcolm_reavell @cesifoti You go yo your ATM and want your money. That service costs you $2 and is instantaneous

In a world with no billionaires, we would all be poorer, not richer.

@KellMorrHK @LocalWobbly @malcolm_reavell @cesifoti Wait, Kell... having production and sales happen instantly is a bit too much. That would be impossible even in the era of complete automation.

Sure....here you go again... A sphere of production of widgets has a historical supply and demand of 2000 as part of a broader economy. Two companies have historically provided the supply (1000 from each factory) that exactly meets demand, at a historical price of 2, with each factory having one owner and one worker. In T0 one of the workers in that factory quits to join the other part of the economy and the owner of that factory decides to take a chance and fully roboticises. An AI machine/robot, that starts up by itself, costs 1000. It makes 1000 widgets. And the builder of the robot owns the factory building widgets where the robot he built is the only source of production power. The labour factory continues to make 1000 widgets The value the machine/robot contributed to the commodity can be no more than 1 per widget according to Marx as no ‘new’ value carries over from, or is created by, the machine according to Marx. The commodity sells for 2 in a market where supply = demand (for widgets) so price MUST equal value according to Marx. Also, let me expand the scenario: this is a full economy, with more than one ‘sphere of production’ (per Marx, meaning industry or commodity class) but only 2 companies in the widget sphere at Time-0 (T0) and, as stated, the AI humanoid robot produces finished commodities with NO LIVING labor and competes with another factory that does not have robots and produces the same widget for also 2 (in a supply=demand market so price = value in an equilibrated market for widgets) with only living labor and no machines so no depreciation/maintenance, with wages equal to 1.8/widget taken out of previous capital reserves accrued by labour in the labour-only factory. All other inputs come free from nature and are valued at 0. Production at T0 is instantaneous; so is the sale. Humanoid-AI-Robot only factory has surplus value of 1.0/widget. Labour-only factory has a surplus value of 0.2/widget. At T0, where does the value come from in the robot-only factory that does the exact same process as the labor-only factory and sells widgets at exactly the same price? At T0, why is there MORE surplus value from the robot-only factory? I have no interest beyond T0 and if LTV does not hold at T0 it is busted. If you cannot answer the first question, there is no point answering the second, it is busted. Go to work and show your work.

@WaxNightmares @KellMorrHK @PoliticsLeeches @mindingmyps @SandyofCthulhu Can you quoting it directly

@lainiwakura2008 @KellMorrHK @PoliticsLeeches @mindingmyps @SandyofCthulhu Not quite, for Marx supply = demand explains a stable price but does not explain why the value is 2. He would say a more technologically advanced factory could also sell at 2 but produce at a lower cost, thus producing surplus profit but NOT greater surplus value.

Under the Labor Theory of value, the game Concord should have been a great success, because of all the effort that went into making it. Looking at their characters, it's mind-boggling that they thought you'd play to be these awful cringe "heroes". I know Concord is old news now, but it is incredible. I was invariably on much smaller teams, but we apparently put a lot more effort into making our games look good to players. 1/2

@WaxNightmares @KellMorrHK @PoliticsLeeches @mindingmyps @SandyofCthulhu According to Marx, when demand equals supply, price equals value.

@KellMorrHK @PoliticsLeeches @mindingmyps @SandyofCthulhu This is nonsense. You are conflating price, value, profit, and surplus value, which all are distinct categories in Marxist analysis. You assume a robot has no embedded historical labour. Your argument that price MUST equal value in this case misunderstands the theory. And so on.

First city ever built on mars. You get to name it. What's it gonna be?

@KellMorrHK @Rakeshhkumaar I'm convinced that 90% of these people don't know what automation is. that's why there are so many Luddites among the left

@Rakeshhkumaar Easily done now days. Labour theory of value is busted bro.

“Workers only push buttons.” Then fire all the workers and keep the buttons. Let us know how much gets produced.

@flottismeoff @KellMorrHK @austrosillyism @NekoKirito7 read bohm-bawerk and mises

@KellMorrHK @austrosillyism @NekoKirito7 Well, what makes you think it's busted ?

Marxists treat Marx books like a bible. It magically turns normal people into communists. If you read it and aren't a communist you must have read it wrong.