PC

@lunarchekist sure, but you posted a silly marx passage at me... i like the manuscripts too but in like a romantic communist way not in an "i'll use them in a debate" way. but it a good thing that you are eager to read, i think the bernes piece goes over some important problems

@pcuser1968 tis what I'm doing

@lunarchekist marx was wrong about most of capitalism's internal contradictions and tendencies. this doesn't mean that you have to give up on being a communist, but it does mean that you have to engage more deeply with the world so that you make a coherent case for it

@lunarchekist what is more feasible? not having idiots in the fed decide on moronic interest rates, better housing policies, and so on - or overthrowing a totalizing system with a different one that we have no good idea about how it'd work, if it would be able to coordinate production better

A quick reminder for midwits who ignore critiques of political economy - communists critique capitalism not because it fails, but because it operates exactly as designed. Both its advantages and its drawbacks are inherent features of the system.

@lunarchekist np

@pcuser1968 ty!

@lunarchekist i like those things too but we have to be honest about basically not knowing how shit would work! no more arrogant shit, the theory of capitalism is much more sophisticated than most communists think and saying "contradictions" as a get-out-of-jail-free-card is irresponsible

@pcuser1968 well it may not be desirable to you but to me I like freedom and progress, desirability doesn't matter when capitalism's contradictions will get worse and worse, and not bc everyone will go poor, but it'll be more like a boom and crash

@lunarchekist i'm pretty sure he updated this essay for his recent book released last year. i haven't read the book so i can't say if anything notable changed cominsitu.wordpress.com/2021/03/12/the…

@pcuser1968 gib book I wana read that

@lunarchekist and like the GIK emphasis on labour-time is pretty disqualifying to me. at that point you're just doing capitalism-under-a-different-name but without the 500 years of tweaking... it'd probably be better in some ways, worse in others. probably worse in general.

@lunarchekist bernes has a good critical engagement with it too

@lunarchekist i've read this, multiple times actually when i was younger, and i don't see how it would be any more desirable than something like a sophisticated social democracy (and with the latter you actually can achieve it politically with less trouble)

@pcuser1968 capitalist realism is a thing too for marxists unfortunately, I only replied to give my opinion but this book is decent in my opinion youtu.be/EIwvmbY5MeA?si…

@lunarchekist i mean, "embracing the entire wealth" is pretty clear... he could have just said "embracing what is socially useful," but that has other problems re: judgement

@pcuser1968 this is kinda nitpicky obvious not everything will be kept

@lunarchekist feels like you're sidestepping the main political problem for communists today. how do you aim to convince people to buy into a future without markets when you can't even draw a coherent sketch? this is not a problem with a "common sense" solution like you portray it

@lunarchekist and the fact that we produce many things now, under a system that compels us to work and produce through various ways, doesn't mean that we'd be producing lots of things in the future under a different system. or more useful things, etc

@lunarchekist but if wealth is an exception, then you have to show how communism would be able to maintain that wealth. market forces produced that wealth - those improvements in technology, living standards, etc - and communism abolishes them. how does communism reproduce their effects?

@lunarchekist the other poster said "complete abolition of capitalism and everything that comes with it." i'm pretty sure that wealth produced under capitalism should be included in this statement.

@abjectbaby causal in the sense of smoking and having s*x -> looking young. in any case, they look young until middle age comes and they start aging horribly

@abjectbaby false cause fallacy. in fact the reason why you'd even associate youth and beauty with those things is because people who look young and beautiful generally have more opportunities to experience those things on account of their appearance. there is no causal relationship however

Crazy how having rough sex with someone who loves you and sharing a cigarette with them before falling asleep in their arms without taking off your makeup will make you look more young and beautiful than this