Emite Rose

@Johzbohz @DrShayPhD A messenger just says what he was told to say and he is done. That doesn’t define Moses. I get you are trying to win an argument no matter what, but don’t denigrate Moses and his role trying to do that.

@EmiteRose @DrShayPhD Did moses stood before pharaoh as God substitute or as God messenger?. Sometimes you guys reasoning always come out very poor. I ask a simple question show me where moses was a substitute for God. I'm waiting

Calling any man the Vicar of Christ is blasphemy. God never appointed a substitute for Christ. When Jesus returned to heaven, He sent the Holy Spirit, not a pope.

@DrShayPhD Successors? So you think the Church ended at the death of the last Apostle? What a strange argument. I was assuming you were at least a Christian. Was I wrong making that assessment?

@EmiteRose Still no verse calling Peter head. Still no verse establishing successors. Still no verse creating a papal office. Just parallels and assumptions. That’s the difference.

Christ is Head of the Body. His mystical Body does not just include those here on earth, but also those in heaven. Jesus is not HERE physically, sitting on a throne is He? No, no He isn't. So just like any other Davidic King, he left His stewards (vicars, heads of His household) in His place with His authority. This is seen in the language of Matthew 16: 17And JESUS answering said to him: Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18And I say to you, that you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. 19And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heav-en. And whatever you bind upon the earth, will also be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, will also be loosed in heaven. The language our Lord uses is the language given to a steward (vicar or head of household, whatever you prefer) in the Davidic Kingdom. This is illustrated in Isaiah 22: 19And I shall drive you out from your station and depose you from your ministry. 20And it will be in that day, that I shall call My servant Eliakim, the son of Hilkiah, 21and I shall clothe him with your tunic and strengthen him with your belt, and will give your power into his hand, and he will be as a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. 22And I shall lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder. He will open, and none will shut; and he will shut, and none will open. 23And I shall fasten him as a peg in a sure place, and he will become a throne of glory for the house of his father. We can see in other locations, such as chapter 36, in Isaiah that Eliakim is the head of king's household. LXX calls him steward. Look, I'm not sure what is so difficult about this, and why you are having issues with understanding Scripture. But I have given you plenty, and I'm moving on. If you do have an honest question, I'll do my best to answer it, but at this point I'm starting to feel like I'm starting to hit my head against a wall, and I'm going to stop that.

Show me where Scripture calls Peter, or anyone, the head of the Church on earth. The Bible already said: Christ is the head [Ephesians 1:22]. That position is not shared, and it is not delegated. Authority to preach is not authority to replace Christ’s role. The apostles preached. None of them sat as a universal head. Those keys you mentioned? Peter used them in Acts. He opened the door to Jews, then Gentiles [Acts 2; Acts 10]. That’s it. That has nothing to do with a throne or an office passed down. You brought up David’s kingdom. Fine. Where does the New Testament say Christ set up a chief steward over His Church in that same way? Show me. Book. Chapter. Verse. Please! Pastors lead locally. That’s biblical. One man ruling the global Church in Christ’s place? That’s not. You’re describing a system. I’m asking for where the Bible says it.

@Johzbohz @DrShayPhD Who stood before the pharaoh? Moses or God?

@EmiteRose @DrShayPhD Shown.. where did moses substitute God.. please show me , it is clearly shown in the roman catholic doctrine not in scripture, know the difference

@Li34041 @theoscholastica Does he? Where? I have them at home and have read much of that book and never came across such a comment.

@EmiteRose @theoscholastica It's not ignorant. Bugnini admits it in his memoirs.

Fully Catholic yet contains Neo-Protestant language and influence.

@Johzbohz @DrShayPhD I'm at a loss here. I really don't understand how you are refusing to see something so clearly shown in Scripture.

Sorry moses was never a substitute, the only substitute where the shadow, like the high priest which are are shadow of Christ , moses never substitute God , God presence was always moving in a pillar of cloud with them. Moses was only a messager to the people of Israel , none of the OT prophet act as substitute. You probably don't know what substitute means if you do , you won't have wrong this bunch of nonsense. We always see God dwelling place in the OT, not anyone acting as a substitute for him . I don't know where you get that OT ideal that moses substitute God.

@DrShayPhD @Johzbohz I guess I should take it as a complement that you think so. But no I'm not.

@EmiteRose @Johzbohz You're using AI.

I think you are getting hung up on the word "substitute" and applying it in a way that is not meant here. Let me ask you a question. If I hire a lawyer to represent them in a court of law, I am giving that lawyer authority to represent me, i.e. to be my substitute before the judge. Am I replaced? If the lawyer loses my case, is he or I liable? I get that the Old Testament is big, and there is a lot in there, but you find all throughout the OT where God is giving His Authority to someone else to represent Him, to be His substitute before the people. Moses was a vicar of God for the people of Israel. He is the one that God gave authority, so that he (Moses) can lead God's people. Did Moses replace God in this case? Did David replace God, when he became king over the house of Israel? Did Solomon? Or any of their descendants?

Okay.. Roman Catholic, nothing like Paul being vicar in the bible but just do whatever please you . Vicar is from the Latin word as Rome is Latin and the word is a substitute of Christ , Peter never substitute Christ but if you believe the pope is Christ substitute then is left for you.

Yeah from my research, it seems that there are major revisions done to the Roman rite, about every 500 years give or take. This makes sense because religious practice isn't static and especially before the printing press, there would be issues with manuscripts being corrupted, or a local practice added in as part of the liturgy.

@theoscholastica @EmiteRose “Organically developed” is a very subjective standard, never really consistently applied. You could argue the suppression of tropes and sequences after Trent was a tearing down of “organic developments” as well. Liturgy is sometimes changed top-down, always has been.

@AestheticCorda @theoscholastica Are there? Then why aren't they using our rite then? There isn't a single Protestant liturgy that is comparable to the current Roman rite. So if it is so Protestant, one would assume that Protestants would be using a rite that was similar to ours, and yet there isn't.

@EmiteRose @theoscholastica There are serval protestant theologians that say otherwise.

@theoscholastica Again, you evidently aren't paying much attention while you are there.

@EmiteRose Yes, I grew up going and im sometimes still forced to against my will. The Sacrifice they mention is a reduced "sacrifice of praise", not a propitiatory sacrifice like the Council of Trent Mentions.

The vicar (or in Biblical terms head of the king's house) is an office in the Davidic Kingdom. I get that you guys may not understand the fact that Jesus Christ is a King in the line of David, and His Kingdom is a Davidic Kingdom. Question. Is Jesus Christ today physically sitting on His thrown here on earth; or is He now left to prepare a place for us in His heavenly Kingdom? Last I checked, Jesus ascended into heaven and left us a Church here on earth. A visible Church, that He has mandated to go throughout the world proclaiming His Gospel. That visible Church in the New Testament had "vicars" that we call the Apostles, and she had a chief "vicar' that was St. Peter. And yes these Apostles and especially St. Peter had the authority of Jesus Christ here on earth. This hasn't changed. Today those who have succeeded the Apostles still carry the authority of Christ, they are His vicars, until Jesus returns.

@EmiteRose @DrShayPhD Lol... That's the meaning of vicar ...

@theoscholastica No mention of it being a sacrifice? Have you ever been to a celebration of the current Roman rite?

@EmiteRose Reducing the Mass to a meal and no mention of a propitiatory Sacrifice, like what Luther did, isn't Protestant? sspx.org/en/news/new-ma…

@DrShayPhD @Johzbohz Again, only you are using the language of "substitute", "replace" and now "taking His place", not I. See previous post.

@EmiteRose @Johzbohz False. “He who hears you hears me” is about representing His message, not taking His place. There’s a big difference between speaking for Christ and standing in His place.

Perfect example of why there is so much lost in modern sects that don't have a great grasp on Scripture. Let me ask you a question? If one gives authority to speak for them, ie. preach, and forgive or retain sins, then does that not mean that one that is given that authority represents the one who has given that authority? Let it be known, that a) I'm not using the words "substitute" nor "replace" with are poor words to use. In the Davidic kingdom, the chief steward, head or vicar of the king's household, did not replace the king nor was he a substitute of that king, but rather he exercised the authority that was given to him by the king to deal with mundane matters while the king was sitting upon his throne. But when the king was away, the king gave his chief steward, head or vicar (whichever word you prefer) authority over his kingdom while he was away. This was represented as giving the keys to the kingdom, and with the language of what doors you open no one will shut, and whatever doors you close no one will open. Anyway, since the Kingdom of Christ is modeled after the Davidic Kingdom, Jesus knew that when He left to go and prepare a place for us in the kingdom of heaven, He left us vicars, steward or heads (whatever word you prefer) with the His authority to watch over His kingdom here on earth. In Christ's Church, the pope is head, vicar or steward over the whole Church through St. Peter, but bishops are vicars over their dioceses, pastors over their parishes, etc. I would assume you have a similar model in your sect as well. Do you not have a pastor or parish council that has authority over the church you attend?

@EmiteRose False. Those verses show authority to preach and forgive through Christ, not replace Him. None of them call anyone a “vicar” or put a man in Christ’s position.

@kethdarrell No one makes anyone do anything. This is something they came up with in the location. If you would ask the Church, the Church would not look upon this kindly.

So thankful for the Protestant Reformation and the Gospel of Grace. Catholics rage at “It is finished,” making their people do stupid stuff.

@FoundAMoron Okay put her in jail and go after the rest of Congress. Because she isn’t the only one.

Apparently Ilhan Omar and her husband (not the brother husband) are BOTH under investigation because neither one can seem to explain how they went from being broke, to being worth 30M+ in ONE year on Ilhan’s public servant salary and his failing ventures.

@Johzbohz @DrShayPhD Christ appointed vicars.

@EmiteRose @DrShayPhD So Christ appointed a substitute... Okay