Marvin Sevilla

@02percent_ @Qafzeh Sima De Los Huesos Hominids were Genetically Stem Neanderthals and already diverged from the Denisovans. So no, this doesn't make them Heidelbergensis

@SprayOnCopper @Qafzeh Seems to me like this puts the heidelbergensis as the missing link back on the table? Ironic

Stem Sapiens vs Stem Neanderthal. A comparison between Ngaloba LH 18 and SDLH 17 Sima De Los Huesos 17. I suspect the first time our lineage met about 300,000 years ago the difference were not as drastic as The last, where True Modern Sapiens met Classic Neanderthals

@calipsoaltiin Sima De Los Huesos Hominids were Genetically Proto Neanderthals, already diverged from Denisovans

@SprayOnCopper Heidelbergensis?

@OriginsUnveiled @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin It's more about overall cranial shape rather than capacity. Yunxian 2 has the same Capacity yet It's shape its different. Dali and Harbin are nearly identical. Dali being older is more robust while keeping the overall shape.

The range for cranial volume is more tightly clustered within modern populations than the overall range observed across modern populations (1 SD = ~100-150 mL within populations). If the Dali and Harbin crania belonged to a single unchanged lineage, you'd expect a smaller gap than the 300 mL observed. This therefore suggests directional selection towards brain expansion (whether Dali is a more archaic Denisovan specimen with a smaller brain case, or the Dali and Harbin specimens are sister East Asian lineages).

1:1 Scale Harbin and Dali Crania Comparison, it is quite obvious that these Late Middle Pleistocene are related. @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin

@OriginsUnveiled @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin That's difference is still within our own species range. Not every Sapiens walks around with an average of 1,350 cc of cranial capacity.

Despite their morphological similarities and spatial-temporal proximity, the cranial volumes are vastly different (Dali = 1,120 mL | Harbin = 1,420 mL). With the Harbin cranium potentially being 100–150 ka younger, perhaps there was strong selection for brain expansion during this period — or earlier if they represent sister branches.

@ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin Look at how their eye Orbital bones and facial structure match it's quite uncanny. I believe that there are more differences between our Sapiens range(from Jebel Irhoud to Modern day Sapiens across the world) than Dali and Harbin

Just in case People had any doubt that Dali and Harbin were not related, made Dali a bit larger to match the size of Harbin. Dali being much older show to be more robust. @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin

Dali Cranium @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin

@SprayOnCopper To my untrained eye he looks very similar to the Denosovian dragon man. The similarities between early sapiens and other humans is interesting

3D Printed BOU-VP-16/1 Herto Skull. Classified as Homo Sapiens Idaltu

@Local_Origins1 Correct

@SprayOnCopper by this is mean more sapiens like than later neanderthals who specialised more towards cold adaptation

Sima De Los Huesos 17. Proto/Basal Neanderthal dated to about 430,000 Years Old.

@chaosdrifter93 Me neither, until I willed/Pushed myself to generate 3D Models of previously not available skulls like Harbin, Yunxian 2, HLD 6, Ngaloba (LH 18) and many more

@SprayOnCopper Amazing. I never dared hope we'd see a 3D of any Sima finds but skull 5. Such a beautiful series.

Sima De Los Huesos 17. Proto/Basal Neanderthal. Dated to about 430,000 years old.

@rah_66_comanche There is enough to extrapolate the facial structure

Seems pretty important that the nasal and much of the maxillary bones are missing.

@InterspeciesFa1 @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin That's a good point.

@SprayOnCopper @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin Look at these dudes. What the fuck is up with them?

Do you Consider Laetoli Hominid 18(Ngaloba Skull) An True Sapiens? Basal Sapiens? Advanced Heidelbergensis? @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin

@Phillip05166897 @Local_Origins1 @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin Makes Sense

@SprayOnCopper @Local_Origins1 @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin Modern extant variation goes back to 300kya, so honestly with the exception of morphologically distinct species like neanderthals I am not prone to exclude members within the Sapiens mosaic clade.

@Phillip05166897 @Local_Origins1 @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin Herto is another line of Sapiens that may or may not have contributed to the main Sapiens. In Africa and quite likely in The Levant/Asia there could have been multiple lines of Sapiens that eventually Coalesced into a single line. Some of those lines may have not contributed

@SprayOnCopper @Local_Origins1 @ChrisStringer65 @Zeke_Darwin *certainly not Then what do you consider Herto then?