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People are valuable for who they are, not for what they appear to be.
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๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฆ(PropAMM dealer)
98K posts
๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฆ(PropAMM dealer)
@Mawuko
maktub::demigod๐๐ฆ| noob | ground control @cloberDEX | prev. @jpmorgan ๐ฆ, @0xfastlane ๐๏ธ
New York, NY ๊ฐ์
์ผ Kasฤฑm 2010
4.4K ํ๋ก์10.6K ํ๋ก์
@0x9212ce55 all the user should care about is getting the best execution for their trades and the capital efficiency of an active liquidity management system they participate in as a liquidity provider.
the difference lies in how both solutions perform across the desired performance window.
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@Mawuko I'm not saying about which one should live in my opinion, I'm just genuinely unable to see the difference in the outcome for the user. So while both types will exist, I don't see how anything changes if we have just one.
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I've been thinking a lot about propAMMs on Ethereum, and I can't see any benefits of this approach compared to existing solver-based frameworks.
At its best, it's a different interface to the same set of entities, with the same or worse efficiency.
Am I missing something?
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@EntropyAdvisors the primary reason why uniswap still does 80% on ethereum today is because the majority of order flow sources on there don't yet route their flow to the main propamm surface that exists.
this movement is less than a month old on ethereum
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PropAMMs already clear ~50% of Solana DEX volume, and the model is now live on Ethereum via Fermiswap, Kipseli, and bopAMM.
In a month they've gone from nothing to ~1-2% of daily ETH-USD volume. Uniswap still settles ~80%, the benchmark they have to beat.
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> Why? What benefit does that give them over using CEXs
Literally the entire set of benefits offered by blockchains (hopefully those are rather obvious)
> Youโre assuming these traders want to come on-chain.
So yeah, I'm assuming that traders want great execution and deep liquidity with the added perks and unlocks of being fully on-chain if they can have it all .
> besides no KYC?
"besides no KYC?" is doing a lot of heavy-lifting here. at least 70% of DeFi is made up of market participants that don't want to KYC or simply don't trust CEXs (#by-end-user" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">marketintelo.com/report/decentrโฆ | marketgrowthreports.com/market-reportsโฆ)
> I think propamms will struggle to get integrations with aggregators
I think your thoughts are running on stale information.
Clober's PropAMMs are presently integrated with some of the top aggregators in the EVM scene, and these aggregator integrations aren't slowing down.
Furthermore, every operator/team that uses Clober's stack to deploy their PropAMMs natively benefits from these aggregator integrations.
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My point was that propAMMs are competing for the same users as CEXs.
Professional traders who need great execution and deep liquidity.
Youโre assuming these traders want to come on-chain. Why? What benefit does that give them over using CEXs besides no KYC?
I think propamms will struggle to get integrations with aggregators, but some aggregators will build their own in house to capture the mev.
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The "efficiency" of propAMMs come from an external price feed
It assumes price is discovered elsewhere and imported. Oracles stop being relevant when you're the largest market
AMMs are far more ambitious, as they assume they are the venue where price discovery takes place
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@xcloudllama @haydenzadams > It doesnโt and you missed the point.
State your point and lets see how obvious it is in hindsight given your statement
> With those I understand the price Iโm executing at.
And what pray tell makes you think you can't have price transparency with PropAMMs?
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@Mawuko @haydenzadams It doesnโt and you missed the point.
With those I understand the price Iโm executing at.
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๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฆ(PropAMM dealer) ๋ฆฌํธ์ํจ
if skill issue was a tweet
Hayden Adams ๐ฆ@haydenzadams
The "efficiency" of propAMMs come from an external price feed It assumes price is discovered elsewhere and imported. Oracles stop being relevant when you're the largest market AMMs are far more ambitious, as they assume they are the venue where price discovery takes place
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@wagmiAlexander he really didn't, but you won't be able to tell anyway
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@xcloudllama @haydenzadams PropAMMs don't require you to have a third-party custody your funds just so you can access them.
PropAMMs don't lock your accounts because you connected from a geographic region they have a problem with
PropAMMs are very different from Coinbase or Binance.
Hope this helps
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@haydenzadams PropAMMs are inherently trustful too.
Not the DeFi way of trustlessness. Might as well just use Coinbase or Binance
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@haydenzadams How will a Uniswap LP update their SPCX liquidity after an earnings report is released
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> LVR only exists on secondary pricing venues.
When you study PropAMMs, you will come to learn that LVR is the least of your problems and thus only significantly compelling in the myopic framework of AMMs and external side-effects.
> When (not if) we live in a world where price discovery happens onchain, AMM LPs wonโt need to worry about โmark outsโ anymore.
When we live in such a world, AMM LPs will still have to worry about becoming and staying the venue where price discovery and best execution happens at because other market operators will be making that their prime directive with more sophisticated methodologies and microstructures than a static curve can even begin to imagine.
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@haydenzadams Eggsacally!
LVR only exists on secondary pricing venues. When (not if) we live in a world where price discovery happens onchain, AMM LPs wonโt need to worry about โmark outsโ anymore.
Ofc we have some work to get there, currently Uniswap doesnโt even support native limitorders.
Milliฮ@llamaonthebrink
Prop AMMs are just CLOBs on top of AMMs, or they can be can be compared to oracle based AMMs where the oracles are market makers pricing spreads. But i find it baffling that after all these years, AMM LPs are still misclassified as โuninformed market makersโ AMM LPs are directional capital allocators with the specific expression that their divergence loss will remain less than fees earned. Prop AMMs are fragile in comparison and theyโre functionally similar to CEX liquidity.
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> The "efficiency" of propAMMs come from an external price feed
this is like saying the "efficiency" of blockchains comes from proof-of-work because there's apparently there's absolutely no other way for them to function. that's how you sound.
> AMMs are far more ambitious, as they assume they are the venue where price discovery takes place
ah yes, the very delusion that serves as the foundation of "AMMs", which therefore requires arbitrageurs to function at all.
borrowed time
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@haydenzadams Thatโs how many of them work but it doesnโt have to be that way. MMs can still make markets without intent to handle price discovery and de-emphasize the signal strength of an external price feed, itโs just different math. But that choice is orthogonal to what propAMMs represent.
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@OstwalAk @CloberDEX ๐ซก
QME
Weโre changing the TGE game at @CloberDEX and are looking to work with founders and startup teams in crypto that are looking to TGE but canโt afford a major exchange listing or market maker support.
Hit my DMs if this is you.
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๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฆ(PropAMM dealer) ๋ฆฌํธ์ํจ
*World Cup starts*
France : We have Mbappe , Dembele and Olise
Argentina : We have Messi
Norway : We have erling haaland
Other countries : Tactics, total football, and advanced football knowledge
The subplot on Brazilian Twitter :
theus@matzeraxx
๐จ A DESGRAรA SE MOSTRA AO MUNDO โผ๏ธ Mbappain marca 2 gols e lembra a todos por que รฉ o lรญder da Akatsuki. โ ๏ธ A Vila do Brasil entra em estado de alerta mรกximo. Especialistas afirmam que nรฃo existe atualmente nenhum ninja capaz de enfrentar Mbapain em combate direto. Todas as esperanรงas agora repousam sobre o Jinchลซriki do Pelรฉ e Orochimar , que ainda seguem treinando
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๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฆ(PropAMM dealer) ๋ฆฌํธ์ํจ
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@0xamericanspiri No this is wrong. You can transfer out to any other brokerage. Everything coinbase is trying to do weโve already done.
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Main difference between Backpack/SOL vs Coinbase/Base is that you will probably be able to transfer stocks from Base directly to Coinbase instantly vice versa + onchain composability.
On Backpack you would have to sell stocks for fiat then transfer/wire out?
Correct me if Iโm wrong here
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๐ด๐๐๐๐๐๐๐ ๐ฌ๐ญ๐ฆ(PropAMM dealer) ๋ฆฌํธ์ํจ
