Value Praya

2K posts

Value Praya

Value Praya

@ValuePraya

Biting off more than I can chew

Entrou em Eylül 2015
459 Seguindo1.2K Seguidores
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
7 days, 7 writeups, 30k words on one of the cheapest sectors anywhere in the world. Starting today with an industry primer and overview of 25 companies you've (probably) never heard of. Link in bio.
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell @CompaCompu Says % of web visits so i guess apps wouldnt count. And chinese model api prices cant be subsidised when random neoclouds (or even consumers) can profitably run the same open source models at the price the creators do.
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Michael Fritzell (Asian Century Stocks)
@CompaCompu Forgot to provide the source. Consumer market share 7% apparently but models used back-end closer to 50%. Usage might be subsidized however. You may know more than me so take it with a grain of salt
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
Preserved Plum snack seller LiuLiu Orchard's IPO application was rejected by the exchange three times. They then changed their name to LiuLiuMei (LLM), reapplied and tripled on listing because theyre an 'AI stock'. Very healthy market.
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Value Praya@ValuePraya·
Good to see Cafe de Coral management has their priorities in order $0341.HK
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Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@CompaCompu Well nobody can accuse them of profiteering like the other intangible culture places do
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Coocoo
Coocoo@CompaCompu·
@ValuePraya I salute their earnest efforts 🫡
Coocoo@CompaCompu

@MikeFritzell considering the considerable number of ‘Baked Pork Chop Rice w/ Cheese & Tomato (6lbs)’ I consume every year, maybe I should have invested in CdC. 🤔

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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell @grok Beijing subsidises lossmaking companies -> Leads to excess competition. But everyone else also subsidises lossmaking companies, many to greater extents. And involution doesnt occur there. So I dont think floating shit companies are the root cause of involution.
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Michael Fritzell (Asian Century Stocks)
The concept "involution" (excess competition) doesn't exist elsewhere. That's because Beijing refuses to let market forces do their magic, instead subsidizing loss-making businesses. Proposed solution? "Anti-involution": price controls, forced mergers. But it's a blunt tool...
Ricky Ho@rickyho_1989

This chart is also one of the clearest visual representations of what Chinese policymakers increasingly describe as “involution” (内卷). Involution occurs when competition becomes so intense that participants work harder, invest more capital, build more capacity, and cut prices more aggressively, yet everyone earns lower returns. Activity increases, but value creation does not. That is exactly what this chart appears to show. China’s industrial sector continues to produce enormous volumes of goods, but profitability is collapsing. The share of loss-making industrial enterprises has surged to 30%, while the absolute number of loss-making firms has reached a record high. In other words, more companies are competing than ever before, but a growing percentage of them are failing to earn adequate returns. This is the classic involution dynamic. Instead of weaker players exiting the market, firms continue operating, often supported by local governments, state-owned banks, strategic objectives, or the simple need to maintain employment. As a result, excess capacity persists. Companies respond by cutting prices. Competitors then cut prices further. Market share becomes more important than profitability. Everyone runs faster, but few move ahead. The EV sector is perhaps the best example. China has built the world’s most competitive electric vehicle ecosystem, yet pricing pressure has become so severe that many manufacturers struggle to generate sustainable profits. Similar patterns can be observed across solar panels, batteries, chemicals, steel, industrial equipment, and numerous manufacturing sectors. From a macro perspective, involution is deeply deflationary. When companies are trapped in price wars, they lose pricing power. Falling margins suppress wages, reduce investment returns, weaken business confidence, and ultimately slow household income growth. The result is an economy where supply keeps expanding while demand struggles to keep pace. This also explains why China’s export push has intensified. Excess capacity that cannot earn adequate returns domestically naturally seeks demand abroad. What China experiences as involution internally is increasingly being exported to global markets through lower-priced goods and rising trade surpluses. The deeper issue is that involution is not merely a cyclical phenomenon. It is often the consequence of an economic system where capacity creation is rewarded more than profitability. Companies continue investing because competitors are investing. Local governments continue supporting industries because neighboring provinces are doing the same. Capital continues flowing into sectors despite falling returns because strategic priorities outweigh market signals. The result is an economy that becomes exceptionally efficient at producing things but increasingly struggles to generate acceptable returns on the capital invested. Viewed through that lens, the rise in loss-making industrial enterprises is not simply a profitability statistic. It may be one of the strongest pieces of evidence that China’s involution problem is becoming more severe. The country is producing more, investing more, and competing harder than ever, yet an increasing share of firms are losing money. That is almost the textbook definition of involution.

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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell @grok Sample size is the most fundamental part of stats/econ and proving causality,you cant just ignore all countries that contradict your hypothesis and call it whataboutism
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Michael Fritzell (Asian Century Stocks)
@ValuePraya @grok “What about the US” x.com/valuepraya/sta… “What about the US” x.com/valuepraya/sta… “What about Japan/Korea” x.com/valuepraya/sta… “What about Japan” x.com/valuepraya/sta… Who cares
Value Praya@ValuePraya

@MikeFritzell @grok Look into Japanese window guidance policies and how >60% of japanese companies were lossmaking in the 80s/90s. Its not whataboutism if youre claiming something is unique and I'm showing examples that make it not unique

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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell @grok 5 messages ago - "Fully agree socialism doesnt work" Does that sound like I'm saying socialism is good lol. I'm just disagreeing with your view on whats causing involution
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell @grok Indonesian monopsonies are created by X, resulting in Y unique consequence. - Y is not unique to Indonesia - X happens all over the place and in most cases Y doesn't then occur. So maybe theres a different root cause for Y than X?
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell @grok Look into Japanese window guidance policies and how >60% of japanese companies were lossmaking in the 80s/90s. Its not whataboutism if youre claiming something is unique and I'm showing examples that make it not unique
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell Imo involution isnt unique to china, its a common pitfall for middle income countries that Japan/Korea also went through. IP protections arent built up, so game theory better to copy, fast follow and deploy limited capital into vertical integration/lower costs rather than R&D
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell Fully agree socialism doesnt work. Its an extremely worrying path the West are going down. All of the 'national security' market interventions are imo attempts to copy China while pretending its still a free market.
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell I'm not insisting its the exactly the same. I'm saying state interventionism is high and rising across the board, even in democratic free markets. The world is moving towards chinas economic model not the other way round but you seem to believe its still uniquely chinese
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Michael Fritzell (Asian Century Stocks)
@ValuePraya China is a communist country that's now moving away from the private sector. I don't know why you insist that it's exactly the same as any liberal democracy's economy.
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Michael Fritzell (Asian Century Stocks)
@ValuePraya The government has decided to move lending from real estate to the industrial sector. It's the government, not the private sector who has decided this. The banking sector is controlled by the government, let me just be clear.
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@MikeFritzell Why is it beijing interference when chinese companies lose money but free market forces when US firms do the same? Seems more likely to me root cause is capital is too cheap in both countries so its government interference everywhere
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@CatNyanpital I wouldnt call GM going from 41 to 28% in 5 years passing on commodity costs
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Value Praya
Value Praya@ValuePraya·
@dennisihong Slight tweak to the government budget incoming to allow recognising MTM gains. We will never see a US budget deficit again.
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