mud physics

@danielle_liat The answer to all those question is that there were, from hamas' prospective, military targets in proximity. The same logic used for the wedding bombing.

Sure, if you can tell me what military advantage was gained by attacking the Nova festival, I’m all ears. What was the military target at Nova? Or a kibbutz Be’eri? Or any of the other Kibbutzim? You are trying to draw a moral equivalence between Hamas and the IDF. I reject it.

Israel has claimed responsibility for bombing A WEDDING in Gaza City yesterday that killed 7 people from two families, including a 4-month-old BABY. Israel offered no explanation, but acknowledged "uninvolved civilians" were killed. Where's the Bondi beach level media coverage? Where's the outrage

@danielle_liat Right, and no proof that in this,and most, instance that the target was hamas and not the civilians

@mudphy No. That’s the point. Hamas is a military target, not a civilian target. Even if civilians die that doesn’t mean they were the “target”.

@danielle_liat Does this same thinking apply to Oct 7? A bunch of civilians were killed, but it was a war so hamas doesn't have to justify it?

This is wild. Why should that be the assumption?? You’re saying the assumption should be that Israel intentionally murdered civilians? Because in the middle of an active war, they don’t take the time to justify their every single move to some nobody know-nothing in the US? They don’t owe you a goddamn thing. They owe proof to the courts only.

@danielle_liat Of course that should be the assumption. Again, you agreed that the onus is on the bomber for having a justification to bomb. If they do not provide the justification, you should not blindly assume they had one.

@danielle_liat What facts are you referring to in this instance? Also, the whole point is civilians were targeted in both cases

@mudphy It’s not something I made up. It’s something I deduced based on a set of facts. It’s called critical thinking. If you think that civilians dying in war is just as bad as terrorists targeting civilians - you’re lost.

@danielle_liat Right, and in the wedding case they provided no proof, so there is no reason to assume that they were killed for any association/proximity to hamas. The assumption should be that israel just intentionally killed a bunch of civilians.

@mudphy Correct. The onus is on Israel to provide proof of proportionality.

@danielle_liat But your assertion that they targeted the wedding because of hamas is just something you made up. They killed the civilians intentionally, as part of their ethnic cleansing campaign. Israel is actually morally worse than bondi because their killing is at a much larger scale.

You misunderstood. It’s always bad when civilians die. But there is no moral equivalence between targeting Jews on a beach in Australia because they’re Jews and targeting Hamas terrorists at (or near) a wedding and having civilians caught in the crossfire. These are not the same thing. That’s the point.

@danielle_liat If you bomb something and kill/harm a bunch of people, the onus is on you to provide a good reason for why you did it.

@mudphy Can you name any infrastructure that was attacked that was not being used by Hamas for military purposes?

@danielle_liat This whole thread is because you downplayed isreal's killing of civilians, as if its less bad when israel kills civilians

@mudphy You’re confused. Civilians dying is not acceptable. War is not acceptable. War is awful.

@danielle_liat They are targeting all infrastructure, but you've already shown that you will just blindly assume any bombing was solely targeting hamas.

@mudphy @Captain_Chaos01 They have been attacking infrastructure used by Hamas.

@danielle_liat You immediately handwaved away the killing of civilians as being acceptable because there were probably hamas in the area (something you just made up)

@mudphy @Captain_Chaos01 There’s never a good reason for civilians to die. War is not good. Where did I cheer? I’m starting to think your confusion is a pattern. You seem confused about basically everything.

@danielle_liat @Captain_Chaos01 Again, reread what he says. Israelis have been inflicting collective punishment on all Palestinians because of Oct 7, which is consistent with what isreali leadership said they were going to do in the aftermath of Oct 7.

@mudphy @Captain_Chaos01 He did not explain how the quote referred to Palestinian civilians. And it clearly refers to Hamas. So, again, you’re wrong

@danielle_liat @Captain_Chaos01 He didnt just say "grok was wrong", he gave you an explanation. x.com/Captain_Chaos0…

@mudphy @Captain_Chaos01 Saying “Grok is wrong” is not really what I meant.

@danielle_liat @Captain_Chaos01 Above you saw an example of civilians being killed and just reflexively assumed it was for a good reason.

@mudphy @Captain_Chaos01 Point to where I did that.

@danielle_liat @Captain_Chaos01 The other guy did, but you are either dumb or dishonest.

@mudphy @Captain_Chaos01 And yet you can’t refute what Grok said.

@danielle_liat @Captain_Chaos01 You seem like a dishonest person, so i cant take your word for that. You cheer on the indiscriminate killing of civilians, so i wouldn't be surprised.

@mudphy @Captain_Chaos01 I’m Israeli and I have never done that.

@Captain_Chaos01 @danielle_liat The israelis also frequently refer to amalek when discussing the Palestinians. They are quite openly hostile to the Palestinians as a people, not just hamas.

@danielle_liat @mudphy So if Hitler said "We are putting all the Jews into camps so we can fight the criminals amongst them" that would be fine? Because thats the equivalent. Gallant is saying they need to do an act of genocide against all of Gaza to fight Hamas.

@danielle_liat @Captain_Chaos01 It is really lame to try and use ai to win an argument, especially grok, the dumbest ai.

@Captain_Chaos01 @mudphy How did I know you were going to attack Grok? Lol You’re so pathetic and predictable. Fuck off.

@danielle_liat So this is just an assumption on your part. All we know is that a bunch of civilians were killed. hamas being there is just something you made up.

I believe the purpose of the strike was for military gain. Their military goal is the destruction and degradation of Hamas. It’s reasonable to believe the goal of this strike was in line with their larger military goal. My guess is there were a bunch of Hamas members in attendance of this wedding. That’s much more likely than the IDF just targeting a random wedding for sport.

@danielle_liat If they were not just trying to kill the civilians, then what do you believe was the purpose for the strike, and why do you believe that?

@mudphy According to your feelings? So you understand that civilians die in wars, but when Israel fights wars and civilians die - it’s on purpose? Because why? Jews are evil? Explain.