Brian Buffie

@AsafKlaf @RonShavit2 No because routinely they’ve already been told the findings are the issue. We often have to “prove” that this may not be the entire story.

@physiobuff @RonShavit2 Could it be that you just need to say: "The findings are not dangerous" without trying to justify it? I believe the results indicate that this is the correct course of action.

💥New and important study from my friends. They examined what messages patients with low back pain found reassuring. The interesting findings is that all the usual painsplaining neuroscience messages were the least favorite! Well done! @RonShavit2

@mboyle1959 @jwehrerDPT @GregLehman Nope. Not one person in the thread argued against these basic facts of the hamstrings. You seem to be the only person who thinks so. You didn’t understand the debate which explains the disconnect.

@jwehrerDPT @GregLehman Certainly seemed that way to me?

More thoughts on hamstrings? Lots of different “functions”

@GregLehman When you find a way to make the basics lucrative, you’ll have your answer. And please let me know!

Progaganda Help Required. I believe that the basics are important in rehab, health and performance. But, it implies that there are some steps beyond the basics that are superior and I mostly reject that. So, how do you convey that basics aren't just 'becky basic"?

@mboyle1959 @_Tyson_Beach @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT Yes. Really. You continue to conflate the movement of flexion with a flexion MOMENT

@physiobuff @_Tyson_Beach @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT Really?

This debate isn’t going anywhere :)

@mboyle1959 @_Tyson_Beach @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT lol. Literally no one was arguing against this.

@_Tyson_Beach @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @physiobuff @jwehrerDPT That’s what I’ve been trying to get at. The hamstring is very rarely in the flexor role and frequently in the synergist, strut, brake and spring role.

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT That’s actually a perfect analogy. If you don’t want to understand how they fly that’s fine. But maybe don’t try to debate how they fly and certainly don’t claim to be an authority on how they fly.

@physiobuff @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT But it seems “your biomechanics” only takes into account single hinges? It doesn’t seem to properly explain why the system moves? But that’s ok. I don’t really understand how birds fly but my eyes tell me they can so, I’m good.

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT I honestly don’t know what science you’re referring to. You don’t seem to have a handle on basic biomechanics. It would seem to me your science is what your eyes tell you. “You know it cause you see it” but can’t actually explain it.

@physiobuff @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT I’m might be dumb but it appears like you use science to deny science? What am I missing that you guys understand that I don’t?

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT No

@physiobuff @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT So in the step up the hamstring extends the hip and consequently aids in knee extension. 😉

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT So for the last time, hamstring only ever create flexion moments at the knee and extension moments at the hip

@physiobuff @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT That’s simple. They are eccentrically resisting extension. The question to you guys is how does the hamstring create flexion moments in the step up, split squat , squat etc.

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT Let’s try it this way. You tell me what the hamstrings are doing as the knee is extending in a Nordic.

@physiobuff @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT I can honestly say I think I’m of at least average intelligence and I can’t follow the logic of this. The muscle is flexing the knee but the knee is extending?

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT All of this to say whether you’re doing an open chain concentric, closed chain eccentric or sprinting, you are ALWAYS training a flexion moment for the hamstrings at the knee.

@Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT @physiobuff Isn’t the “flexion moment” an extension force?

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT You’re not grasping that just because the limb is moving to extension and the hamstrings are contracting that that means the hamstrings are creating extension forces. They’re not. They just aren’t as strong as the quads forces. They only produce a flexion moment at the knee

@mboyle1959 @Lasso_lifts @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT Flexion moments can never produce extension forces. They can only slow them down.

@mboyle1959 @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT Correction internal moment to extension by the quads

@mboyle1959 @GregLehman @jwehrerDPT Depends which phase we’re in here but in that scenario the external moment is towards flexion, the internal moment to control flexion is an external moment from the quads.

@jwehrerDPT @mboyle1959 @GregLehman But this is the reason why a basic hamstring curl can improve a Nordic (not as good) because you’re always improving flexion moments/torques. It’s a case against “functional” exercise. We see crossover of benefits from “nonfunctional exercise” to function all the time ?

@mboyle1959 @GregLehman @physiobuff 2/2... creates a situation where the external knee extension torque > internal knee flexion torque.

@mboyle1959 @jwehrerDPT @GregLehman It’s just a tug of war between the flexors and extensors. Whichever torque wins will create the movement. That doesn’t mean the other force stops. If both torques are equal then the result is an isometric.

@jwehrerDPT @GregLehman @physiobuff I can honestly say I don’t grasp how you can guys look at this / explain it. Can you dumb it down a bit? What is external knee extension torque and, what is internal knee flexion torque? And while we’re at it what’s the difference ( external vs internal) 🤔

@mboyle1959 @GregLehman The bottom line is when you train your hamstrings they are always creating flex moments at the knee,ext moments at the hip or both no matter how “functional” the exercise looks. Humans don’t need to think about this, it just happens

@physiobuff @GregLehman What in your few does control a muscle?