Imagine “speaking”ancient Greek and Latin at 8, when most classical literature would be far too sophisticated for a boy of that age to read and appreciate.

@ArmandDAngour You'd be surprised what people at age 8 (or 9) can appreciate. Have you ever read "The Young Visiters"? Written by a 9yo in 1919 but full of satire, social commentary, and an understanding of adult subjects you wouldn't have expected at that age. Also hilariously funny.

@gadboit2 I believe John Stuart Mill was also prodigious in Greek and Latin at a very young age, but I do wonder whether a child can have the maturity to appreciate Homer or Tacitus even if they can translate these authors.

@ArmandDAngour @gadboit2 Quart makes Homer more difficult to appreciate than Harry Potter, except the language? Millions of non English native speakers read them in English at 8 or 9

@STrosterud @gadboit2 Grok: “Language poses a core barrier for Homer in ancient Greek, but there are considerable differences from Harry Potter’s modern kid-friendly narrative in thematic depth, historical context, and literary sophistication.”

@ArmandDAngour @gadboit2 Dont you think a bilingual 8 year can’t read the Bible in their second or third language? And get something out of it? O think we’re make things seem more complex than they really are For reasons that a child doesn’t have

@ArmandDAngour @gadboit2 Out of curiosity, is you first language french or english?

@ArmandDAngour @gadboit2 Why would they need to translate these authors. Couldn’t they just read them in the original language Assuming they have learned the language Non English natives don’t translate English, they just read in it

Have you studied classical languages? It takes some explaining if you haven’t. Greeks in antiquity themselves found Thucydides a hard read and Pindar often barely intelligible. One can more or less create a spoken language based on, say, Xenophon, but that won’t be sufficient for understanding Aeschylus’ lyrics only 50 years earlier. To ‘know’ Greek is to know a changing language and literature across a thousand years or more and spread across the Aegean, Mediterranean, and Asia. It’s not the same as learning a standard modern language unless, perhaps, you specify a circumscribed time and place, and the dialect in which it was spoken. And then there are disputable matters of idiom (the subject of philological scholarship) as well as meaning to contend with - even “just reading” a text requires that text to be accurately transmitted.

@ArmandDAngour @STrosterud @gadboit2 I suppose slight parallell here with English, in that some modern English-speakers would perhaps struggle to read Hobbes or Shakespeare in the original (syntax, vocabulary, orthography, grammar)? Although I assume ancient Greek is that times fifty (and over shorter timespans)

@pronouncedsimon @STrosterud @gadboit2 Yes, but what counts as “knowing English” is being able to get by in the language, not understand Shakespeare. “Knowing” Greek cannot mean not being able to read Homer and Sappho and Aeschylus and Sophocles as well as Plato, Xenophon, Lucian, and the NT.

@ArmandDAngour @pronouncedsimon @gadboit2 I don’t think you need to understand Shakespeare references to get something out of reading it Also, 9 year old bilingual kids get something out of reading Shakespeare, even as a second language. Or Don Quixote It’s fine

@ArmandDAngour @pronouncedsimon @gadboit2 I would even go so far as to day that if you need to translate a language you don’t know it that well Only a monolingual person would think otherwise Though this is beside the original point of who can read what or get something out of reading

@STrosterud @pronouncedsimon @gadboit2 That makes me quite multilingual. To quote my wife, who was once asked how many languages I speak,“Twenty-five”, she said drily. “Two words in each.” 😁

Do you think a 9 year old English speaker knows English enough to read the bible get something out of it? Assuming the English is close to the English he has grown up with? He won’t get what Songs of Solomon are about. And understand any references But I think they would get a lot out of it. And think obviously wouldn’t need to translate. Again, if the English was close to what they have learned Same goes for any second or third language. Assuming the child is sufficiently exposed to it. And knows how to read Not saying they get the allegories. But there is nothing special about ancient Greek or Classical Arabic that makes it any more or less impossible than any other colorful, and compex language If the version of the language is far removed from what they know, then it’s not so easy. But that’s just an extension of any language being further away from the original No different from adult Norwegians understanding Danish better than 9 years ago Norwegians. And icelandic saga’s are tough in the original without study or translation. Not because of inherent complexity, but because of how removed their own language skills are from the original. Icelandic kids don’t struggle with that, nor is it impossible for bilingual icelandic speakers. Same with classical arabic poetry or the Quran