The Silent Partner

@VermonteSekida @pterodaustro And red would leave those same people dying wouldn’t it because they didn’t press the red button they aren’t saved.

@pterodaustro blue is for the irresponsible, you dont sacrifice the safety of your dependents on the altar of altruism. blue also require a higher vote than they seem to think. its not 50% of the poll its 50% of all people, blue has to make up for coma patients and people who abstain

want to make it clear that i do not give a shit about the actual discourse this dumb poll is generating but i do find it a lil fascinating how like 90% of the people ive seen talking about it are in favor of the red button and present as the obvious choice. because i read this -

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita But look at what you said “at an online poll, without real consequences” in this you still chose red? If you cant see that in a situation without any consequences your choice was in contradiction to your stated belief. Something there is not adding up

I never once claimed my choices were right. In fact, I said in numerous occasions that I want to be wrong. I want to be convinced. Only thing I ever said in confidence was 50% is impossible in real life. And even that I wanted to be proven wrong. And again, going back to blue winning all the time in polls. I even acknowledge that. Only thing I ever commented about it was that it's consistently 56-58%, at an online poll, without real consequences. 6 to 8% beyond the goal post. I hope that gave everyone confidence, because it didn't give me any.

I'm a blue-presser HOWEVER I talked to a red-presser and it's not necessarily a selfish or antisocial choice. In that red's mind, blue is guaranteed to lose, because when your life is on the line, they believe more people will press red than was represented in an online poll. 1/

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita But having said that some people are right now protesting various injustices at this very moment. They are blue pressers in both 1st stage and 2nd stage. Some people become blue pressers when numbers grow. But there will always be some that do so from the beginning

@zefur @GillieAmanita I don't know what else to tell you... If your thoughts on right and wrong do not include your own personal actions and the world at large, is that even a thought experiment?

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita This is the 1st step on modelling right and wrong. A lot of the red button variations (blender and such) focus on the next steps (the actions we take) and yes numbers will be different in those variations. For example I don’t protest atm tho I know I should.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita Loooool ok man bow out if you must. There is a reason why this is a moral question. People are really trying to still proclaim they made the right choice when the opposite result won time after time.

You see I'm not in the business of telling people whether they failed or not. If you think I failed, so be it. I know for a fact that it is different from a "low stakes button press". But I willingly chose to exercise my mind and think further than that, which is what I assumed is why you chose to have a conversation with me. Clearly I had more thoughts beyond the purpose of the thought exercise. It made me think about a lot of things - good or bad - about my own humanity. You can choose to remain contained within your rules and judge people whether they failed or not. I'm choosing discourse.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita No because again you are talking about actions that this question is not measuring. This is a thought experiment measuring people’s thought on right and wrong not their actions.

You prove my point. I said in numerous occasions, that the world as we speak, clearly shows that 50% is an impossibility. This is what the world has proven, because big bad actors are still at large. Which is why I say 50% is an impossibility today. Slavery is bad, and it lasted long enough that a lot of people suffered. From my POV, we are in a time period where people still show that they know what is bad, but aren't doing anything about it. I do hope that one day, the world can come to a point where that 50% can actually band together. But that time is clearly not now. Just watch the news.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita You are actively joining the side the goes against what your stated goal is. You effectively chose to join the other side and make it harder for the side you said you would prefer to actually have a chance.

You talk in black and white. People are more complicated creatures than that. Not actively working towards your beliefs, doesn't always mean you stopped beliving in it. You see someone getting robbed. Robber has a gun. Your beliefs tell you not to be a bystander. To help people out. But you dont. You feared for your life. The guy has a gun. Helping out more than likely means getting shot. You go home. You feel guilty. That's a fact. Red pressers will feel the guilt as well for sure. Beliefs can be weak when faced with certain death. If you think 50% of the world are capable of overcoming that fear, then honestly, I do hope you're right. I'm all for it.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita Same with apartheid same with women’s rights and civil rights.

I agree. It measures beliefs. But what I've learned in life is that even beliefs can be frail when confronted with death in their faces. I don't blame keyboard warriors. I'm sure a lot of them believe what they are saying online. But very few of them are willing to put their words into actions. And I think even more of them are unable to keep to their beliefs at gunpoint.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita You’re also misunderstanding. It’s not measuring actions that’s what the blender variation gets wrong. Pressing a button is measuring do you believe other people are worth saving. Yes in a real situation things maybe different individually. But people know right from wrong.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita If your stated goal is to save everyone then you pick red then you don’t actually believe in the cause at base level. Because you are actively working against making it happen. This isn’t a question that targets people’s actions it’s one that targets their beliefs.

What are you talking about? When did I say getting 100% of people to do the same thing is easier than 50%? Clearly, I agree that 50% is easier relatively. But I'm of the opinion that it's already a lost cause. 50% is easier than 100% sure, but taking into consideration world events, that 50% is impossible and the world clearly shows that these numbers do not exist beyond the internet. So from my POV, blue is an impossibility. Therefore, by choosing blue, I'm adding myself to the list of people guaranteed to die - which is suicide. I'm not trying to show myself to be the better person. It is what it is. I want to be wrong as well, and to be proven otherwise that the 50% can actually band together for something concrete. But world events have shown that people have chosen to be indifferent to the sufferings of others. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. Just look at the news. How I wish I was wrong.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita Your last paragraph is why this question is completely a moral question. This shows people’s moral inclination at base levels. It’s not measuring actions but beliefs. People know what is wrong but it is true not everyone confronts it in life. This shows how many are at 1st step

I think no one should be voting using only a single criteria. You think red pressers just want people dead? My desired outcome is the same, saving everyone, by choosing blue. Then I think about the odds. How likely is that outcome from happening? With the current state of the world as we speak? Definitely not. Absolutely impossible. I wish it wasn't like that, but it is. Then blue button becomes a choice that will clearly kill me. Why would I choose to die? Again, I can't stress this enough, I wish it wasn't like that. It's not a comfortable decision to make. But the world has so far convinced me that the majority are keyboard warriors, because no group of people have been shown stopping the big bad actors apart from their online attacks and dismay.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita This is a single issue vote. It’s very clear blue guarantees your safety blue tries to guarantee everyone’s. I never said reds *want* everyone dead. They want to survive everyone else be damned that’s all. It’s a choice that only thinks about the self and not others.

@allenguarnes @GillieAmanita When you vote do you only vote because you think your choice will win or do you vote because you want that desired outcome? I want the desired outcome of saving everyone. Not just the guaranteed one of my life.

This is my point. What are blue pressers taking that make them confident blue will actually win? As a red presser, I'm convinced blue is guaranteed to lose (today). What has 50% of any (current) population actually done to stop objectively evil things in this world? Aside from talking smack online. No one even talks about Epstein files anymore, let alone done anything to serve justice. US vs Iran. In EVERY crime video, MOST people are bystanders. Sometimes, we get videos of heroes, but they are most of the time only 1 actor out of many. In real life, people rarely risk their lives to help. There will be, but it won't be more than 50%, because again, a lot of the world's atrocities continue to go on, and people aren't marching on to fight them. If it were purely a thought experiment, and I'll pick blue. If it were real life, I'll pick red. Because blue is a definitely a suicide button in today's landscape. And you know what? I wish it wasn't that way. But it is. I'm not suicidal. Picking red means another life saved.

@MonardaB @katyusharocket1 @sharghzadeh This is an opinion piece that doesn’t seem to realise that phonics doesn’t stop at the single letter sounds. Their example of e having 11 different pronunciation is quite bad.

@zefur @katyusharocket1 @sharghzadeh scientificamerican.com/article/two-th…

A large percentage of young people are functionally illiterate because schools abandoned phonics in favor of sight reading

@MonardaB @katyusharocket1 @sharghzadeh You said written English is not phonetic. This is a contradiction because yes there are words that are not phonetic these a sight words which teachers do teach and point out. But phonetics covers most words that come from the English system. New words are learnt phonetically 1st

@zefur @katyusharocket1 @sharghzadeh I am not talking about the words on my page. I am talking about the most common words, like "the", "are" and "eleven". According to a recent article in Scientific American.

@MonardaB @katyusharocket1 @sharghzadeh Which words in your tweet are not phonetic? If someone was reading your tweet and came across a word they did not know how would they get to the right pronunciation?

@katyusharocket1 @sharghzadeh Phonics is only useful to very beginning readers. Written English is not phonetic. The most common words are not spelled phonetically. We have etymological spelling & their spelling must be learned one by one. The simplistic idea of phonics vs. sight is cartoonish hype.

@tilde_posting @unvarnishedvoid @YOUPOSTBAD I answered. You can’t read. Don’t blame me for your inability to parse information.

@zefur @unvarnishedvoid @YOUPOSTBAD I was asking you a different question to walk through your thinking process. Your inability to do this for such a long period of time, & inability to understand this, have made me disinterested in continuing.

@unvarnishedvoid @YOUPOSTBAD the core question remains the same though; the decision to be 'red' or 'blue' is the controlled variable everything else (framing, colours, way people die, etc) are independent variables which should be changed to better understand people's thinking