Return of the Sheep ☦️

@theThinkInst @economic_eth If I point to a passage in the U.S. Constitution, does that make me part of the SCOTUS too?

@economic_eth Galatians 1:8–9

The Eastern Orthodox Church is not only not the one true church. It isn't even a church at all. There are undoubtedly true believers in the EO Church, but they are such *in spite of,* not *because of* EO teaching.

@The_Cathodox What is your motive for pinpointing this down, may I ask? Understand that 1672 is not infallible. The bishops never declared it to be so. It is generally accepted as a good rebuttal to protestantism. If you want more precise info on it, go talk to a bishop.

@ReturnOrthodoxy You have an incorrect understanding of confession and the Roman position on sins being forgiven outside of the sacraments. But this is besides the point. You said decree 18 has flawed western theology. Is this theology heretical? If not- how is it flawed?

A dogmatic/confessional contradiction I found in Eastern Orthodoxy on punishment after death. These confessions are accepted by multiple patriarchs. 1642 No temporary punishment after death 1672 Temporary punishment after death 1838 No temporary punishment after death Thoughts?

@MethodMinistry I'll answer you after you answer my question.

@ReturnOrthodoxy How do you know all this?

Ask an EO how they know their church is infallible and they’ll engage in circular reasoning, EO: “Because the Scripture says the Holy Spirit will guide us.” Prot: “How do you know that interpretation is infallible?” EO: “Because the EOC is the true church.” Prot: “How do you know that?” EO: Circles back to first answer. It’s trying to prove their church by the Bible while arguing that you can only prove the Bible by their church.

Oh you're referring to that decree? That's not heretical, just hard to understand. Yeah if you kill someone, repent in your heart, but then die and cannot make up for it in this life, then you absolutely can be barred from Paradise for a while as a punishment. That is not the same thing as purgatory, which states that ALL sins must be cleansed through punishment there before entering Paradise. It's reserved for extreme sins. RC says that unless you specifically go to confession and confess to a priest, your mortal sin can condemn you forever, and venial sins have to be punished in Purgatory. This, to me, is downright asinine, given that confession to a priest is a known non-apostolic practice (confessing to other men morphed into that later). This all being said, even decree 18 is subject to the flaw of western theology and should be taken with a grain of salt, especially when we all know today that punishment is not the language usually used for those in Christ.

@ReturnOrthodoxy Some Bishops aren't a true authority though. Bishops have at times rejected various ecumenical councils and dogmas. Crete and various authoritative synods and saints say 1672 is binding. Who says it isn't or that decree 18 is heretical?

@The_Cathodox I don't know names off the top of my head but there have been several bishops which stated discrepency on the western terms. I believe the approved Russian version of the text omitted punishment if I recall.

@ReturnOrthodoxy Which saints or patriarchs say this?

@BasedinOhio777 @IndianaBrunner I dare you to go read Ignatius' letters to the churches and come back here and tell me that protestants match him on apostolic succession, the bishop, catholicity, and the Eucharist.

@ReturnOrthodoxy @IndianaBrunner None of the practices and theologies Protestants and Catholics and EO disagree on show up for hundreds of years later... But nice try

I’ve never understood Catholic or Orthodox apologists. The moment they move beyond exclusively quoting “infallible” Church teachings and begin explaining what those teachings mean, they’re doing the very thing they accuse Protestants of doing: “relying on your own interpretation.” Even more confusing are the apologists who appeal to Scripture or historical sources that have never been “infallibly” interpreted by their Church. In those cases, they’re simply offering their own concoction of evidence while insisting Protestants cannot do the same.

@MethodMinistry We don't think everything us "infallible" as you accuse. If you mean how do I know it's valid, we have records of succession that go all the way back for thr Patriarchs. How do you know that the early Church preserved the Scriptures without changing them?

@ReturnOrthodoxy Same problem: how do you know your apostolic succession is infallible?

Literally every RC comment irl and online sounds like this. "Lol these schismatics lol what a joke lol that 8 year old one-way politically motivated break in communion lol canon isn't dogmatic (who freaking cares) lol lol lol" Like dude I cannot take you seriously when you won't take us seriously.

@ReturnOrthodoxy @IndianaBrunner lol OrthoBros are the BIGGEST Trust Me Bro-ers Don’t even have a set canon and two of your biggest factions aside from being in a clear schism have different canon lists

Protestants don't use all of Scripture. They (usually) say the Old Testament is irrelevant now despite Paul said they are for instruction in righteousness, and they also skip over James, 1 John, which clearly show a more Orthodox way of salvation. So yes, just a few letter. All they ever quote is Romans, Galatians, a bit of Colossians, as well as cherrypicking a couple the others.

@ReturnOrthodoxy @IndianaBrunner I think you mean, “the holy scriptures”. Not, “ a few letters from apostles” but ok.

@BIG_SGT_D Communism works if you have a perfect leader that isn't corruptible. But that's why it can never work here on earth.

🚨 Communism 🤖 Seeing the gospel in a sociological way shifts the focus from individual salvation to how the message of Jesus Christ challenges and transforms human systems, power structures, and cultural relationships. It asks not just what the gospel means for a single person, but what it means for society as a whole. 🫤 That's nothing more than sugarcoated words to cover their true intent. The gospel is about salvation for man, not salvation for government. This is using christianity to get government control. Pope Francis can say stuff like this because the majority of people are ignorant of communism and the Bible. “Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience.” -Karl Marx

@BasedinOhio777 @IndianaBrunner Actually I was referring to around 108AD and 95AD but okay.

@ReturnOrthodoxy @IndianaBrunner Using "evidence" that didn't show up until 400 years later or more, or has conflicting arguments from other saints isn't the sound argument you want it to be.

@KalenWilliams_ @xcnikahd Not by definition, but most certainly many protestants will be saved by God in an abnormal way.

@xcnikahd So no Protestant is Christian?

Just spent an hour and a half in a group full of Creedal Christians, who couldn’t come up with a criteria/method/or a list that defines whether or not someone is a Christian. Could someone please provide that criteria/method/or list??

Sure. Are you joined to the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church? If not, then you're not, by definition, a Christian. That's not to say anything at all about one's heart though, nor what Christ might be doing in their life to save them. But there has to be a boundary for the name itself.

@thaddeusthought Who? James or MacArthur.

@ReturnOrthodoxy I think what you said is what he's explicitly refuting.

Lord have mercy.

Lots of people claim Scripture but have wacky views. I'm sure if we talked more, I would find lots of issues with what you believe. Protestants are a big mesh of half-truths that come in a wild variety from person to person. That's not how the Church that Christ established operates.

@ReturnOrthodoxy @thaddeusthought Its Scripture. I am protestant, because I am placed in that bucket, by simply being "not you" but there are a lot of "Protestants", that think like this, by no means everyone but an "amount". Pastor @dr_andywoods is a good source on this. Thanks bro

@GLConcreteCo @thaddeusthought I don't see any glaring issues with what you said. It sounds Orthodox to me.

@ReturnOrthodoxy @thaddeusthought but its always faith first, he's not talking works, then faith, its an orderly structure. "various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces [d]endurance"