Putting The ian in Christian
7.8K posts
Putting The ian in Christian
@RevIanCollier
Inclusive Methodism. @Georgetown & @DukeDivinity.
Owings Mills, MD Inscrit le Kasım 2011
637 Abonnements660 Abonnés
@RevIanCollier @the_thin_place There is nothing in the wording to suggest that. All it says is that, “They should receive teaching about Holy Baptism. . .and Holy Communion as the sacrament of sustenance for the journey of faith and growth in holiness—needed and received frequently.”
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Why has it been the general practice of the Church Catholic across denominational difference to only admit the baptized to the Lord's Supper? Because it is proved by clear warrant of scripture, supported by reason, and attested to in tradition.
Jeremy ⚓@the_thin_place
Matthew 26:18 He said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is near; I will keep the Passover at your house with **my disciples.**’ Acts 2:41-42 So those who welcomed his message **were baptized**, and that day about three thousand persons were added. 42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to **the breaking of bread** and the prayers. 1 Corinthians 10 "our ancestors. . . all were **baptized into Moses** in the cloud and in the sea, 3 and **all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink**. For they drank from the spiritual rock. . . Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:16-17, 1 Cor. 11:29, 1 Cor. 12:12-13 "16The bread that we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ? 17 Because **there is one bread**, we who are many are **one body**, for we all partake of the one bread. 29For all who eat and drink **without discerning the Lord's body** eat and drink judgment against themselves. 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For in the one Spirit we **were all baptized into one body** Typologically, as Baptism relates to circumcision regarding Covenant membership, Christ is our new covenant meal. Exodus 12:48 If an alien who resides with you wants to celebrate the Passover to the Lord, all his males shall be circumcised; then he may draw near to celebrate it; he shall be regarded as a native of the land. But **no uncircumcised person shall eat of it** Historically, in the lifetime of the Apostles: Didache Ch. 9 "**But let no one eat or drink of your Eucharist, unless they have been baptized into the name of the Lord**; for concerning this also the Lord has said, 'Give not that which is holy to the dogs.'" Theologically per Anglican tradition: "No man receives Eucharist before baptism, because no dead thing is capable of nourishment. That which grows must necessarily first live." (Richard Hooker, the Laws, BK. 5)
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@Jordan_Morrow12 @the_thin_place Of course, we wouldn't deny someone communion, but the counsel of a pastor to an unbaptized communicant should be clear that they need to be baptized.
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@Jordan_Morrow12 @the_thin_place Baptism is directed “as soon as possible”. Repeated unbaptized communion would violate this direction.
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@Jordan_Morrow12 @the_thin_place Just to delineate the UMC position we do officially say that the norm is baptism before communion. Our Eucharist theology statement says that we don’t deny anyone who presents themselves, allowing unbaptized communion as a singular temporary allowance with baptism mandated ASAP.
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@the_thin_place Cool. That is your understanding still. It may be the understanding of your church, but it is still your understanding.
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@TheDonStein @ReynoldsShook @blessedabsalom I read his argument more as "assuming that God is infinitely just, here's the case for why universalism must follow"
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@ReynoldsShook @blessedabsalom It reads as the clay scolding the Potter for not forming the clay’s preferred shapes. None of the arguments advance much further than “How dare God be just!”
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@TheModernist_CA @SimpTheotokos I think the Adam & Eve story gives internal winks at its own mythic nature (i.e. they are the only created people, but their sons get wives from...somewhere; Cain is worried about other people murdering him; etc.)
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@SimpTheotokos Then my follow up question is what is the relevant distinction between Adam and Eve on the one hand and Abraham and Moses on the other, where it’s permitted to see the former as mythical but not the latter?
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Is openness to the possibility that Abraham and Moses were mythical, or at the very least highly embellished legendary characters, compatible with orthodox Christianity, or at least inclusive orthodox Christianity?
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@KenShepherd In your flavor of presby-ism are ruling elders considered "ministers"? I know in PCUSA REs can be commissioned to do pastoral functions but I was under the impression that in, say, the PCA the book of order limited solemnization to "ministers" (exclusive of RE & deacons)
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Fellow Presbyterians, thoughts on a ruling elder solemnizing a marriage? For our purposes assume the RE is under the laws of his state able to solemnize weddings.
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@jathanasius1 @angcathalex There might be - it's a murky historical area. Gary Macy wrote a book on it: "The Hidden History of Women’s Ordination." (Setting aside, of course, the scriptural debate over Junia).
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@angcathalex Do you think there are any examples in the first millennium of female priesthood?
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@the_thin_place Which, I think, is helpful in distinguishing a doctrine of Original Sin (indwelling corruption) from Original Guilt (damnation for unbaptized infants for Adam's crime).
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@the_thin_place At least in the Wesleyan Tradition we would separate those aspects you name as natural consequences of humanity's loss of divine communion, rather than penal cons. The penal punishment would be damnation. Original Guilt is preveniently forgiven through Christ's merits at birth.
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A more careful way to affirm Original Guilt would be:
We do not bear original guilt **as though we personally committed Adam’s sin**, rather we are born **guilty** as being justly liable, under the penal consequences of that sin—the loss of original righteousness, corruption, and mortality—from which we require deliverance in Christ.
Root@rootcausesleuth
Federal headship is not representation. Its descent. We descended from Adam, so inherited his mortality. Not his guilt. When we are born as a child of Jesus, we are descended from Him and inherit from him.
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@TheModernist_CA @Make_it_Raines @benjamindcrosby I think we do so in the theology of the biblical canon itself. Scripture derives authority from God, but the Church acts as an authoritative/definitive witness to the books which are inspired. Through the canon the (fallible) church makes a ruling on what is infallible.
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@RevIanCollier @Make_it_Raines @benjamindcrosby I wonder if Protestants can make a distinction between infallible and definitive/authortative
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I’m starting to think that “Anglican Catholic” is a preferable name to “Anglo-Catholic,” since in North America “Anglo-” has inextricably ethnic connotations, while “Anglican Catholic” clearly communicates what we are: Catholics who are members of an Anglican jurisdiction.
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@Make_it_Raines @benjamindcrosby @TheModernist_CA That, and the binding & loosing. It is within scripture to allow the church to definitively interpret scripture for their flock.
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@benjamindcrosby @TheModernist_CA When Peter says no scripture is of private interpretation, could that point to the Church’s authority?
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@brannonmc It really depends on how its being used, it seems to me. Endowments can be a great way for churches to maintain a level of charitable support for mission partners that's generally more stable than the ups and downs of offerings.
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$200 million of congregants’ giving tied up in investments seems really messed up. Someone tell me what I’m missing.
Ryan Burge 📊@ryanburge
Elevation Church (one of the prominent megachurches in the United States) had a total investment portfolio of nearly $200M at the end of 2024. I'm an American Baptist, I just checked our total denominational investments. $30.1M.
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@AndrewRillera We've got goats, blood, rituals, how these things interpreted through specific theological lens doesn't make sense, really what else could you want from a book.
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they are calling it one of the best books out there about killing sheep in very specific ways, 10/10 would recommend
Andrew Rillera@AndrewRillera
My book, Lamb of the Free: Recovering the Varied Sacrificial Understandings of Jesus’s Death, is 50% off throughout Nov with code CONFSHIP from the publisher’s site (below). Tell your friends!
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Church people sleep on the Thanksgiving carols, but Come Ye Thankful People, Come is just so good.
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@phiafacetious Even if their life becomes more complicated, they at least have a life still, with the chance that in time and with care it could get better. You did well.
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idk i'm just left with this haunting thought that i know is probably correct that i just made this person's life so much worse and more complicated and more expensive
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cw/ suicide
had to help get a guy down off an overpass tonight. i decided to call 911 because there was no accessible way to stop and talk to him myself at first. of course they had to take him to involuntary inpatient but i feel like shit for involving them at all
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@a_wassen I think this kind of theological reasoning follows implicitly from privileging the theological conclusions of saints - ie someones moral character and the extent to which they perceptibly reflect God's love bears a lot of weight in the credence given to their theological opinion
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Just to remind everyone, Rowan Williams went from opposing female bishops to supporting them because he "had to change after looking around at my side and seeing the company I was keeping."
Words matter. If you oppose WO with misogyny, non-misogynists will conclude to accept it.
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@ghostowlredux I mean, lots who are men join the priesthood and religious orders so as to live in community with other celibates.
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I honestly don't know how Catholic folks who are gay and celibate, and who are not well fitted for a life lived largely alone and isolated, manage it without copious amounts of alcohol—just speaking as someone who once managed the same with...copious amounts of alcohol.
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@MattThiessenNT @AndrewRillera As humans are divinized and brought up the great chain of creation, the pets and other animals get dragged upwards to, and become rational agents - or at least that's what the Methodists think. #TalkingDinosaursInTheNewCreation
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The "rapture" is not what many think. 1 Thess is a cosmic Adventus procession ceremony. The dead are raised first to lead the procession & then those still living meet them in the air & they all provide a royal escort for Jesus BACK DOWN TO EARTH. It's essentially a U-turn.🧵
iconnorpop@iconnnorpop
ChristianTok thinks the rapture is happening on Tuesday btw
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@WB_Baskerville This “controversy” is so interesting to me because Israel, famously, is not *in* Europe.
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It’s so funny how important Eurovision is to Europeans. It’s like a serious state matter who gets to participate in “Sex, I’m wanting more / tell the world / stop the war” competition.
Hen Mazzig@HenMazzig
BREAKING: Eurovision organizers are reportedly offering Israel two options to end the participation crisis: 🇮🇱 Temporary withdrawal from the contest for one year “to avoid humiliating removal by European countries” 🏳 Participation under a neutral flag The proposal comes after Ireland, Slovenia, and the Netherlands threatened to pull out if Israel competes. What is it about the Jewish state that angers Europe so much? 👀
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