🇺🇸 ObiWanShinobi 🇺🇸

You already see your costs up front. The menu price is right there, and you know before you sit down that tipping is part of dining in America. That’s not a surprise. That’s not coercion. That’s how it has worked your entire life… And you just conceded my point. You’re admitting the prices would be higher without tipping. So this was never about saving money. You just don’t like the emotional experience of choosing to leave a tip. You’d rather pay more on the menu so you don’t have to think about it. That’s not an economic argument. That’s a feelings argument

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones At least, you see your costs up front instead of being coerced into making some moral decision after your meal to add 15, 20 or 30(!) percent to your bill. If the prices look too high and you decide you can't afford it, then go somewhere else.

Can we stop saying " if you can’t afford to tip you can’t afford to dine out!" We need to be saying, "If a restaurant can’t pay its employees a livable wage without depending on the generosity of customers then they can’t afford to own a business!”

You’re complaining that $19.50 is too much for a meal, and your solution is to eliminate tipping and raise server wages… which would make that plate cost even more than with tipping in place. You just argued against your own position in real time… Also, that $19.50 covers food cost, labor, rent, utilities, insurance, equipment, and whatever margin keeps the doors open. Restaurant profit margins average 3-5%. That’s not greed. That’s a business barely surviving. If you think the food is overpriced, that’s your right. Don’t eat there. But don’t confuse your sticker shock with an economic argument.

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones Maybe the restaurant owners are greedy. Maybe if they lowered prices, tips would be acceptable. I went to small town diner. I had 1 piece of batter fried chicken breast that seemed small for a breast. A portion of fried potatoes and green beans, $19.50. Never eating there again.

Tipping is not customary.’ It is literally called a customary gratuity. It is the textbook definition of a social custom in American dining. That’s not an opinion, that’s the English language… But here’s the real problem with your logic. You are currently benefiting from the tipping system. Menu prices are lower BECAUSE servers are paid $2.13 and tips are expected to cover the rest. You’re eating the discounted meal that the tipping structure makes possible, then refusing to hold up your end of the deal, and framing it as some kind of principle… That’s not standing on principle. That’s wanting the discount without the obligation that created it

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones Not the way it works. It’s not my job to subsidize what the employer won’t pay. If they want a good tip, they’ll earn it by providing excellent service. I’m sorry. This is just the way it is. Tipping is not customary or obligatory. It is earned. You know what you’re getting into.

Bad understanding of economics and how doing this would result in higher costs for customers than what they pay now when tipping… God it’s scary that so many associated with the Conservative Party are too dumb to work through this concept… It’s embarrassing to be associated with them

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones Paying extra anyway with a tip, just raise the price and have no tip makes more sense

@NathanMcKinnon @LarryJones Reply and destroy

🤣 The absolute irony of ending with ‘Use your brain’ while using a hamburger vs. double cheeseburger as your example… Nobody tips differently between those two items. The percentage matters when you’re comparing a $12 plate at Applebee’s to a $60 plate at a steakhouse, where the service, atmosphere, expertise, and expectations are on a completely different level. That’s what the percentage scales with. Not the weight of the plate

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones It makes absolutely no sense to tip by a percentage of the meal prices. For instance, there is zero additional effort to serve a double cheese burger instead of a hamburger. "Use your brain."

You think they’re high now… What do you think is gonna happen if they have to raise server wages to not only compensate for the loss of wages that they would experience if tipping went away, but also to account for administrative, overhead, employee, tax, and all of the other bullshit? They’re gonna be far far far more expensive than they would be under the current tipping norm… Yes, the laws could be updated to change some of this… But that’s not with this discussion about this started with some dip shit simply saying “mUHhhhh yUNeeed to just paaYyyy Ur SerVERs mOre”

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones food prices are already sky fucking high so wtf do you mean? They’re just trying to bleed people dry. Back when servers used to get tipped if theyre lucky restaurants used to run fine

@KlairitySL @LarryJones I’m not going to explain this to someone in this thread for the 14th time… look up the responses and hopefully you’ll learn something

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones Weird other countries survive without this toxic tip culture.

Yes, the tipping culture is absolutely out of hand… and by that when I’m being asked to tip someone for bringing me my carry out food, or round up at the local McDonald’s… that type of thing is absolutely out of control. But servers at a sitdown diner/restaurant should absolutely be tipped.

@fiery16099 @SpacedPotatoes @NoDigasDiego @LarryJones I know. For many people it's hard to accept their country fails on some specific departments. Yet, I do hear more and more Americans acknowledging this tipping culture is getting out of hand. I guess this acknowledgement is a start.

That’s a reasonable response and I appreciate it… I actually agree with you on a lot of this, but you’re mixing up a few things. The fry cook vs CNA comparison? That’s not a tipping problem. That’s a minimum wage problem. And you’re right, it’s broken. But that’s a completely separate conversation from whether tipping should exist. Don’t blend the two… On the “demanding 25%” thing, I hear you. Nobody should be demanding a specific tip. That defeats the entire purpose. A tip is earned, not owed. But here’s the thing: the standard has always been 15-20% for good service. If someone is pushing 25% on you, that’s an individual being entitled, not a systemic failure. Don’t punish the whole model because some servers forgot what the word “gratuity” means… And “$10 used to be good” is where I have to check you a little. If your bill was $50, that $10 was 20%. That WAS good. If your bill is now $100 because of inflation and you’re still leaving $10, that’s 10%. The dollar amount didn’t change but the percentage did. That’s not the server’s fault. That’s inflation eating your purchasing power, which circles back to the cost-of-living issues you’re already frustrated about… Your frustration is valid. But it’s aimed at the wrong target. The server asking for 20% isn’t your enemy. The policies driving up the cost of everything on that menu are.

Competition does lower prices you are correct, my issue is that this isn't happening when Democrats artificially raise the costs by raising the minimum wage. A fry cook shouldn't be making 20 dollars an hour when a CNA makes 18. This was forced and screwed everything up. I am not telling someone who is asking for tips to shut up, I am saying, I, as a consumer do not want to hear a server DEMAND a 25% tip. I am paying the same costs and fees that worker is. Life is just as hard for me as it is for them. A 10 dollar tip use to be good.

Nobody is “taking pride” in the laws. I’m explaining how they work so people stop suggesting fixes that would make things worse for the very people they claim to care about… “It’s a cultural problem” is easy to say when you ignore the math entirely. American servers in a tipping system regularly earn $40-50+/hr. Servers in your “better” non-tipping countries are making the equivalent of $15-20/hr with no upside. Ask an experienced American server if they want to trade systems. They’ll laugh in your face… You’re framing this like Americans are brainwashed into defending a broken system. No. Many of us understand the system, see the numbers, and recognize that the alternative people keep pushing would cut server income in half while raising customer costs. That’s not culture. That’s a cost-benefit analysis… And “you’re the only country that does it” isn’t the argument you think it is. We’re also the only country where a waiter can make six figures at a high-end restaurant. We’re the only country where service workers have real earning mobility based on skill and effort instead of being locked into whatever flat rate their employer decided they’re worth… Talk to any server who’s worked both systems. They’ll tell you which one pays better. It’s not even close. The system isn’t perfect. But “other countries don’t do it” has never been a serious argument for changing something that’s currently putting more money in workers’ pockets.

@BroksTricky @SpacedPotatoes @NoDigasDiego @LarryJones It's a cultural problem at its heart. In this particular area, many Americans really don't like the idea that this system is bad and should be changed. Even when they're the only country to employ such an aggressive tipping culture and call it 'normal'.

@BroksTricky @NoDigasDiego @LarryJones Questioning and trying to change laws is a lot different than telling a restaurant to just pay their servers more money… one is highly simplistic and the other is deeply complicated

@SpacedPotatoes @NoDigasDiego @LarryJones So that's why you should question your laws in stead of taking them as a holy grail or even take pride in your bad laws. It's not really a laughing matter to live in a country which such bad laws.

🤦‍♂️ This is the kind of math you get when someone opens the calculator app and calls themselves an economist… You forgot employer-side FICA (7.65% on that $40/hr raise), FUTA, state unemployment tax, workers’ comp premiums, and ACA compliance costs that kick in at higher wage thresholds. That $40/hr raise doesn’t cost the restaurant $40. It costs them roughly $46-50/hr when you add the mandatory employer burden. Already your $10/table just became $12-13… Now factor in that your server isn’t cranking 4 tables every single hour for an entire shift. There’s opening side work, closing duties, slow stretches between rushes, and dead shifts where they’re standing around folding napkins. The restaurant is paying that $40/hr wage during ALL of those hours, not just the busy ones. Tips only cost the customer money when they’re actually being served. Oh and you also forgot that the server isn’t the only tipped employee. Bussers, bartenders, food runners, hosts… they’re all on tip credit wages too. You raising one server’s pay doesn’t fix the labor model. You have to raise ALL of them. Now multiply your little napkin math across the entire staff… $10 per table. That’s cute. Come back when you’ve factored in the actual cost of running a restaurant instead of whatever that was.

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones If you raise the servers wages by $40 an hr and she serves 4 tables per hr. If the average spend per table is $100. The price would go up by $10 per table to cover the cost and tips could be optional.

You’re right on energy costs. 100%. Cheap energy is the backbone of a cheap economy. Everything moves on fuel, and when that price goes up, every product on every shelf follows it. That’s not opinion, that’s supply chain reality… But here’s where I’ll push back on you: lower costs don’t just magically flow to workers or consumers. They flow to whoever the MARKET forces them to. If there’s real competition, prices drop and consumers win. If the labor market is tight, wages rise and workers win. But if companies face no competitive pressure? That money sits at the top. That’s not a left-wing talking point. That’s Adam Smith. That’s Econ 101. The free market only works when competition actually exists… And calling workers “cranky for demanding more money for doing their job” is a bad look for our side. Workers negotiating their wages IS the free market. That’s what we believe in. Supply and demand applies to labor too. If you can’t find workers at $12/hr, the market is telling you the job is worth more. That’s not socialism. That’s capitalism working exactly as designed… We don’t win arguments by telling working people to shut up and be grateful. We win by making the case that free markets, cheap energy, and less regulation create conditions where wages rise NATURALLY because businesses are competing for workers.

We do understand, when you move away from fossil fuels it raises the costs for everything (because shit has to be transported). Then you get the lower class demanding higher wages because they cannot afford a "living wage". Democrats promise higher wages thus forcing businesses to cut costs, raise prices or fire staff. The Staff gets over worked, gets cranky and starts demanding more money for just doing their job. The left pretends things don't trickle down but a clear line of logic proves it. Stop pushing to get rid of fossil fuels so the price of gas can go down so that the transportation of our goods and the manufacturing of our goods goes down. That will increase revenue and allow that to either go to the worker or the consumer.

@AlexHuskey6 @LarryJones And you’re clearly too stupid to understand how the world works and tax laws and employment laws and everything else that goes along with business ownership

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones No laws are required, only better pay by owners.

@not_a_bot_user @LarryJones So someone complaining that a 20% tip makes going out to eat cost too much is OK with it costing more than it does now for someone to go out and eat… make that make sense

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones And that’s fine

@DCSocialsacc @karjeda195841 @LarryJones @DCSocialsacc Ran like a bitch

Nobody said “let owners be greedy.” I said the tax code makes eliminating tips more expensive for YOU, the customer. Those are two completely different statements. Read it again… And pulling the “legacy of slavery” card doesn’t change the math happening in 2026. You know what else originated in that era? Income tax. Land ownership laws. The banking system. We don’t abolish things because of their origin story. We evaluate whether the current system works and what replacing it actually costs… Right now, under tipping, a good server at a decent restaurant can pull $40-50+/hr. You think a restaurant owner is going to pay that as a flat wage? Not a chance. They’d pay $18-20/hr, the server takes a massive pay cut, and you’re still paying more because of the employer tax burden I already laid out… So who exactly wins in your scenario? Not the server. Not the customer. The only people cheering for the end of tipping are people who have never waited tables and don’t understand what servers actually earn… You’re so focused on making this about morality that you’re ignoring who actually gets hurt. Ask a server if they want to trade their tips for a flat hourly wage. I’ll wait.

You’re literally proving my point and don’t even realize it… You just said “no one makes an owner do that, they aren’t forced, it’s a choice.” Correct. So what happens when you FORCE them by eliminating tipping? They do the math, see the employer tax burden I already spelled out for you (FICA, FUTA, workers’ comp, ACA thresholds), and raise prices 25-30% to cover it. That’s not greed. That’s survival. Margins in restaurants run 3-5% on a good day. There’s nowhere to absorb that cost… And you keep posting history screenshots like you’re teaching a class nobody signed up for. I never once said tipping has a beautiful origin story. I said the CURRENT system, right now, today, in 2026, benefits the server more than any alternative you’re proposing. You haven’t disputed that once. Not once… You want to “demand it be ended”? Cool. Then tell me what replaces it. Give me the number. What hourly wage are you paying a server who currently averages $40-50/hr on tips? $20? $25? You just cut their income in half and called it progress… You’re Googling history articles mid-argument while I’m giving you actual tax law and real math. One of us is doing economics. The other is doing a book report… Answer the question: what does the server get paid in your world? Because you keep dodging that part.

@SpacedPotatoes @NoDigasDiego @LarryJones Yes a law that we should demand be ended dumb shit. That’s exactly the problem. Yet no one makes an owner do that,, they aren’t forced. To pay below minimum wage now are they? It’s a fucking choice. You don’t even know the history and you’re defending it ..

@AlexHuskey6 @LarryJones What part of drastically different laws do you not understand?

@SpacedPotatoes @LarryJones Many other countries have restaurants, pay proper wages, and don’t require or encourage tipping; let’s do likewise.