MrRyan26

@upliftvegans Why are you judging me for eating non human animals, but not a predator for eating a zebra or a predator eating a human even?

@Ryan26Mr ur making my point for me

in the same way that a non-rapist is better than a rapist a non-murderer is better than a serial killer, and a person who believes in equality is better than a sexist, racist or a homophobe vegans are better than non-vegans (aka murderers, rapists and slave owners)

@Rippie856717 @NothingIsArt when you say obviously immoral, that concept only exists between one human to another human.

@Ryan26Mr @NothingIsArt You don't seem to follow what I'm saying. You can't just point to an obviously immoral thing and then say "It's ok, animals do it too"

If your ‘food’ is trying to escape from you, that is an indication that they are not food, but victims.

@Rippie856717 @NothingIsArt non-human animals don't and will never give me rights, why should I have an obligation to give them rights?

@ABiezeman2302 @The_Vegan_Daily @ELLEmagazine Climate change will never lead to our extinction lil bro calm down, emotions don’t matter that much in the animal kingdom do they, you don’t care if a lion eats alive a zebra whom is feeling pain.

@Ryan26Mr @The_Vegan_Daily @ELLEmagazine WRONG!!! Animals have the same emotions like we do (t.i.t.s. obviously nót all of us!!!). Nó animal wants to die!!! On top of that, meatindustry causes climatechange > móre droughts heat floods and bushfires > more failed harvests + eventually starvation and extinction!!!

"Eating meat is inherently wrong." Billie Eilish points out the hypocrisy of loving animals and eating meat. You can't love animals and eat them too. ❌

@JamieWoodhouse @ElwoodDogMeat Did you read my post, I said the human species is capable of creating a concept of right and wrong, babies would be in that category, also I wouldn’t want to kill and eat a dog but I would keep one as a slave and put a leash around its neck, is that wrong to you?

@Ryan26Mr Good point! This is why toddler farming and @ElwoodDogMeat are totally ethical. Because dogs and toddlers can’t grant rights to us adult humans, so “it is simply neutral to kill them or not kill them, not good or bad.” 🐶 👶 Zero compassion. Just transaction.

Being vegan isn’t a bias. Just like supporting human rights isn’t a bias. They’re just good ethics. What’s not to like? ❤️

@Rippie856717 @NothingIsArt When you say rape and infanticide, you would care if a human did that but you wouldn’t think twice if an animal did that, also you don’t care if I hunt my food or not, you think it’s equally wrong either way, correct?

@Ryan26Mr @NothingIsArt Not only do you not hunt a single thing you eat, but you are also commiting appeal to nature fallacy. You know what's really common among animals? Rape and infanticide.

@applepiemonsta2 @borowskisme Not fucked up, say I were to assault a woman sexually without her consent I could probably get some personal enjoyment from the short term exchange but know it's better for me to respect her right to autonomy so that other humans learn to respect my right to autonomy.

@Ryan26Mr @borowskisme buddy lions don’t have grocery stores. you’re not a lion. they do it because they need to, we do not. i don’t think animal deserve the same rights has humans i just think we should leave them alone. if you only view morality through what you stand to gain that’s fucked up lowkey

seeing vegan discourse is so funny cause people can’t argue against veganism so they just resort to whataboutism and constantly conflate veganism with “sustainability” like “well indigenous people eat meat sustainably”. which can be true, but that’s not what veganism is about!

@applepiemonsta2 @borowskisme Lions eat zebras without a worry for their level of suffering, i'm pretty sure some eat the zebra alive from the bottom up without even suffocating them first and they then die from blood loss.

@applepiemonsta2 @borowskisme But you would never think it wrong for a lion being selfish and eating a zebra because you're aware they have no obligation to respect the other animals rights, therefore I don't think it should be an obligation to care for an animal or protect it's rights the same I would human

@Ryan26Mr @borowskisme that’s what selfless means my man. i don’t care if they can’t thank me, it’s wrong to kill others for my own pleasure or for anyone else’s

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 No problem good chat though thank you.

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 we have different epistemologies and there's no way to argue about which one of us is right because morality is objectively subjective

@applepiemonsta2 @borowskisme That's fine and if you enjoy the world more by seeing them live freely I fully respect that, but I don't think they will ever appreciate or reward you with the same kindness because they are just not capable of ever doing that, not good or bad, just the way it is.

@Ryan26Mr @borowskisme it’s a selfless choice. i can never speak to animals nor see the consequences of me choosing not to eat them, but i know by not eating them i am not engaging with the system that perpetuates their suffering, even tho sometimes its annoying or inconvenient to me. its being kind.

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 I think the social contract between humans is what determines morality and right and wrong because it is how we enjoy a society with lots of people getting along with my own personal happiness being the ultimate goal, that I know I need other humans to help me achieve.

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 because the basis of morality is not the social contract. the social contract is a tool and it's no more of a tool than laws and courts, and i think even you'd agree that laws and courts aren't and shouldn't be the arbiters of morality morality is larger and more ephemeral

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 I agree we breed them for a certain purpose but I don't agree we have ANY obligation to take care of them because I imagine thousands of cats and dogs don't have an owner and we don't forced households to take any unwanted animals from a shelter.

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 pets as a concept are kind of fucked up and in an ideal scenario they wouldn't exist however we live in a world where we as a species have bred certain animals to be unfit for survival outside of human society and for that reason we are morally obligated to take care of them

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 No it would be wrong because I want my basic human right to not be killed at any stage of life, sleeping, being an infant and being frail and old, which would only exist if I commit to an all or nothing recipricol basis of treating "the human species" with respect.

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 attacking that old man is morally bad anyway, not because you broke a contract, but because you caused suffering

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 Good point we don't allow them the autonomy to roam around freely because it would reduce our level of comfort to walk around safely, isn't this violating a right if they have rights, like we don't view pets as slaves but we would never think it morally ok for a human to be that

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 we don't allow coyotes to just roam the streets because that would be dangerous, and the reason that would be dangerous is because coyotes do not have a concept of right and wrong however, if you go out and kill coyotes for fun, you are also dangerous and should be kept away

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 sorry killing and eating non humans does not involve moral consideration because non humans have no wish to form a social contract with me and defend my rights.

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 >so in my mind killing and eating no humans is void of an concept of right and wrong i'm not entirely sure i understand this sentence but i want to see where you're going, what did you mean to say

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 But where does this consideration for rights come from if not the human understanding that i'll receive the same consideration from other humans, an animal will never respect my right to life.

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 because they are not capable of choosing and you are

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 Wait I agree, you're based, "a set of principles decided by creatures with multiple choices", but not all creatures have this capacity for granting rights, only humans have this ability, so in my mind killing and eating no humans is void of an concept of right and wrong.

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 it's a moral obligation because we have the choice, morality implies choice because morality isn't a fixed law of the universe it's a set of principles decided by creatures with the ability to make multiple choices

@borowskisme @applepiemonsta2 Yes but even vegans will concede animals don't have an obligation to reduce suffering, like they wouldn't judge a lion for eating a zebra so why judge me for eating another species?

@Ryan26Mr @applepiemonsta2 you're describing deer as bio machines in a way that implies that humans are not just more complex bio machines