mae borowski

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan that does solve the problem of vagueness, the issue there is that getting the three to sound sufficiently different would require monolingual anglophones to learn new phonemes for 3 words, which is generally considered malpractice for lonewords

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan This is getting to be very silly and clearly a matter of poor communication, probably on my part because of sleep deprivation. But if you're capable of using the proper endonym as it's pronounced in that particular language, it solves the problem of the vagueness

"stop using [mispronounced endonym] that's a colonial term! Decolonize and use [foreign exonym] or [foreign exonym] instead!"

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan and if the irish people were to decide that the english word for the irish language was gaelige (as opposed to gaelg and gàidhlig) then i would do that, but as it stands they seem to call it irish in english and gaelige in irish

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan The other solution? Use the actual Irish word.

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan precisely, as i will occasionally say "français" or "cadien" (as well as "kouri-vini" which is a different thing) in an otherwise english sentence if i'm code-switching, and yet the *english* word remains "louisiana french" even if i use the french word in an english sentence

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan Codeswitching

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan here is exactly what i am saying

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan they call it gaelige in irish and not in english

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan i'm saying it IS called irish because the irish call it irish, and if the irish were to call it something else, the it would be called that something else

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan i think you're conflating the problem presented with the solution given i'm not saying that it's NOT called gaelic because the irish wanted to call it irish, it's NOT called gaelic because gaelic is a vague and unspecific name in english

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan i'm arguing against person who's trying to apply OP's point (it's stupid to insist you use a different name for a place/langauge than the one we already use) to the irish saying "we speak irish not gaelic" because there IS a fundamental difference

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan i don't disagree with and i'm not saying that there's some super deep origin to the name "irish" being given to the language

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan as have i

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan I have agreed Gaelic is a bad name in English for this whole discussion, yes

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan i knew this and i don't see how this counters my point at all, what i've said is that if the irish had a different name for it in english the you should use their name for it which is why "call it irish" is different than "call it zhongwen"

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan This is why I make the point that they Irish are using what is parsed into English as "Gaelic" to refer to their own language. All of the Gaelic languages use the same word in a sense, to refer to their language. It's just a matter of happenstance that they have different-

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan exactly what part of my point are you missing

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan Those two examples are not the same. Louisiana french and "fraunsay louisianay" are one to one literal translation whereas "Deutsch" has no relation to "German"

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan what i'm saying is that if the irish picked a different name for irish gaelic, i would start calling it that instead

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan Well it's not really that they picked it but that it simply defacto the Irish form of Gaelic. You could call it Irish Gaelic or just Irish. you just can't say "Gaelic" on it's own, because as you are aware, it doesn't refer to the actual language of the Irish people.

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan okay i believe you i'm not an expert on celtic languages, i was under the impression that they were considered mutually incomprehensible regardless, they are they are not the same thing which is why gaelic is a bad name

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan Fyi tgey're not mutually incomprehensible, Scottish Gaelic and Irish Gaelic exist in a dialect continuum, the mutual intelligibility depends on the specific dialect

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan yes but gaeilge is the name in irish, not in english just like how deutsch is the name for german in german the english name for louisiana french is not "fraunsay louisianay" because *we* don't call it that in english

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan The Irish have two names and one of their names IS "Gaelic" once parsed into English.

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan i'm not saying that calling it irish gaelic is wrong i'm saying that it's only right because that's what the irish have picked idk what you're arguing against

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan This is more context dependant than you seem to be aware

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan irish needs a name other than gaelic because gaelic encompasses multiple mutually incomprehensible languages the reason why that other name has to be "irish" and not some third option is because the irish picked it

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan Nothing you've said is incorrect but it's only really not the point of *why* it is called Irish

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan i don't think you're capable of holding two things in your head at once 1. gaelic is an insufficient name, we should use a different one 2. the one we should use is the one that irish people pick

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan Sorry but this isn't comparable at all lol. There is a very particular reason why the term Gaelic is disliked for referring to the Irish language, which is that it's fundamentally incorrect, not that it's the anglophonic Irish persons preference.

@LlwyfMorgannwg @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan the irish have two langauges, irish and a unique dialect of english that is important to their cultural identity in the anglophone world the irish do call it irish, they call it that in english which is a language most irish people speak natively

@borowskisme @haravayin_hogh @jiejieneesan That's not what the Irish call it in their own language though lmao