duntsHat

At long last, I've completed my essay in which I trace the key genealogical threads that ended up weaving together to become e/acc. I cover a lot a history and philosophy with many interesting (to me, at least) tangential vignettes. link in reply

Unfortunately, Yud is strawmanning his opposition, and his agument against that strawman applies as well to his proposed solution as it does to the strawman. >because ASI is a special kind of risk any international law-based effort to stop it must be perfect and total. afterall, if anyone, anywhere, ever builds it, everyone dies. if even a single country, corporation, or lab doesn't sign up to their orwellian proposal, defects against it, or otherwise goes rogue, everyone dies. and we know from human nature that perfect totalitarianism never works perfectly. therefore the proposed international law isn't *able* to stop ASI. So we not only shouldn't do it, but no one should try, and we should aggressively message against it, and in bad faith use dark side MoR to malign anyone who suggest that if we really believed IABIED, then wouldn't it make sense that they might try international coordination? -- also, wtf does killing puppies have to do with cancer? you know how we do treat and cure actual cancer? with slightly targeted violence in the form or radiation and/or chemotherapy.

i really really hope people read this, it lays out the points i have been trying to make the last few days better than i ever could. unfortunately i'm quite sure i'll continue to be forced to partially and lossily re-argue fragments of it out of context right thru singularity

@beffjezos Make America Fuck Yeah! Again youtube.com/watch?v=oATsHK…

Amen. 🙌🚀🌘

@sporadica like anyone reads the NYT anymore... seriously, how many years since you payed for a physical newspaper subscription, if ever? stop pretending legacy print media matters (yes, print is loadbearing here)

basically everyone with sense foresaw this the issue is we’re anon shitposters and not CEOs of major AI labs so it’s not like the New York Times is publishing our thoughts on the matter

@icpolicy @BecomingCritter my man

@duntsHat @BecomingCritter Yeah and we have lots of slimy stuff here too - like pickles. But you pickle a radish and use salt/sugar instead of vinegar and Americans lose their minds. Or cheese, for crying out loud.

close, but not quite. I avtually mean they seem more conscious. like, I have no access to the interiority of your mind, but your seem conscious ("agentic") to me. lots of people don't. they feel more like "I used to be an adventurer like you. Then I took an arrow in the knee" npc's.

@duntsHat you mean they seem more thoughtful. that's an entirely different thing, may not even be correlated.

as the inaugural e/acc post says, "e/acc [..] values zero recognizable consciousness in the universe as the absolute worst outcome." we don't know if digital minds can be conscious this OUGHT to make e/accs very concerned about replacing us with digital minds why doesn't it?

Oh man, I'm in a similar state rn, new apt, makinf the place "ours", landlird enlisting me to do unpaid work. But! As with you, the change is good! Just gotta grind thru the bs, physically/mentally/logistically. As I'm sure you already know, you'll be better off on the backside of goinf thru this. But give yourself a day of rest from time-to-time. I basically didn't do shit today. And it kinda bothered her, but it had to happen. Tame care of yourself, brother

@duntsHat Yeah, I know. Thank you, though. A lot of it is good change - nice new (used) car, fixing things around the house, the work disruptions are bc they’re upgrading the building, hubs is at a cultural event with his family, etc. My mind knows these things, my body just feels “off.”

It annoys me, honestly, that this resonates so much. But this whole week has been like that for me. Part of it is probably “big events”, part of it is more time away from hubs, part of it is disruptions in my office (scheduled). But yeah, I feel this.

@icpolicy @BecomingCritter natto isn't even gross at all. americans are just texture/moutfeels wimps, especially when it comes to "slimey"

@BecomingCritter idk, natto isn't even close to the grossest soybean product, check out 毛豆腐 (hairy tofu) or a 腐乳 like 广合 Fermented fish is pretty common, viet fish sauce, worcestershire, or go nordic - it's actually delicious I first had candied bugs in the US Bee larvae is good btw

@alwaysadblock @BecomingCritter nah, karage with a fresh lemon squeeze > KFC (tho KFC is also amazing)

@BecomingCritter It's very good. But Korean Fried Chicken is maybe the one dish the Koreans do better than the Japanese. That and non-miso soups.

if you've never had karaage you don't know what chicken can be

@kendrictonn you ought to check out Okinawa and the Yaeyama islands on a future trip, much earlier sakura blossoming!

@duntsHat Yeah, I bet the first blossoms will be quite soon

Long loop through town, visiting the park in the old star fort, and just looking. Might go back to the fort tomorrow to work on an architecture-focused piece, but mostly that'll be for when the cherry blossoms come

@postpostpostr oof

THE WORLD DOESN'T WANT OR NEED ME

@kendrictonn Yes!

the egotistical CANNON: the era of fortifications is OVER 😈 the devious STAR FORT: huehuehuehuehue

@aelgotha @sriramk well said

@duntsHat @sriramk probably not, but even that is entirely incomparable to asi. a better analogy would be trying to prevent nuclear armageddon by killing oppenheimer, except even that would be infinitely less ineffective than going after ai ceos.

I think the doomers need to take a serious look at what they have helped incite and not just rely on “we condemn this and have said this is not the rational response”. This is the logical outcome of “If we build it everyone dies”.

please remember that i absolutely condemn violence against these people who want have you enslaved for life and then ensure your certain death

if ANYONE stops ai development then we will ALL die of otherwise preventable illnesses and even if you dont die, you will be forced to labor your entire life and will require tons of upfront capital in order to do anything significant here is eliezer yudkowsky’s home address:

@aelgotha @sriramk if you had a time machine, would you not kill Hitler?!

@sriramk no, murdering random people does not prevent 'anyone from building it'. if murder is your default response when faced with any sufficiently bad thing, reevaluate. murder is bad *and* does not magically result in global coordination and treaties to 'not build it'.

@justalexoki Well, he claims not to, though apparently only because the bad pr would jeopardize the international totalitarion surviellance state he is trying to build

i assume eliezer yudkowski and his pause ai friends love this?

I suppose I'm saying a couple of things: 1. Safetiests of the p(doom) ~1 variety who (not saying this is you) being all "ofc we don't condone (non-state) violence of any kind" comes off as either wildly insincere or completely lacking the courage of their convictions. 2. It seems that, given p(doom) ~ 1, under most utilitarian frameworks, literally any action could be morally justified if it has even a tiny chance of reducing p(doom) even a tiny amount (and the potential 'failed' outcomes don't accelerate the arrival of doom). 3. It should be 100% expected by those spreading the gospel of doom that some entirely reasonable, non-mentally ill prople will be convinced of the coming doom, but not be convinced that Yud's preferred solution of worldwide totalitarian state surveillance will work, and then (quite reasonably) chose to take drastic action. Including violence. This was going to inevitably happen once EA/safetiests captured the field and "serious people" started spreading the gospel of doom. 4. It would be reasonable for high p(doom) people to view prominent ai lab employees and AI ceos/advocates as literally worse than hitler. if one would assasinate hitler given a time machine, why wouldn't one act similarly now? 5. oh, right because "rogue" violence doesn't work and EA/safetiest have the very non-utilitarian moral axiom that (non-state sanctioned) violence is never justified. Except, wtf?! Violence absolutely works. And I don't even believe that they believe it either. They just know that openly embracing violence would generate negative publicity. And they're admitted liars (straegically using dark side MoR to advance their causes). and it's just not even really believable on the face of it. 6. Watching from the periphery, the safetiests working in the space are so bubbled up and sure in their moral righteousness that they apparently cannot even fathom how someone could be moved to violence by their arguments, and therefore, anyone suggesting it could happen must be evil or something. Look at my exchamge with Yud last night and how he deigned to lecture me on my moral character and failings, and to explain to me my true motivations for holding the strawman version of my views he constructed for me. I worry that you are so enmeshed in the tribal bubble that you are having a very hard time seeing what is blindingly obvious to pretty much anyone outside the bubble. Thanks for bearing with me through this ramble.

@duntsHat are you saying that safetyists *should* view lab employees as military death squad members and treat them as such? or that despite the clear reality that this is false and useless, the common man will default to this when exposed to existential risk arguments ?

okay i've spent a good chunk of the last 24 hours arguing that raising concerns about ai safety doesn't make you culpable for horrific terrorist action against lab employees. but let me take a minute and mention some things that absolutely do fucking make you culpable: if you're in a social space with pretty visibly mentally unstable people, and actively encouraging them to spend a majority of their time and effort on anti-ai activism, and you make light of the idea of violence or joke about specific acts, if you have reasonable suspicion that a friend might actually do something horrible and you stay quiet instead of fucking reporting them to mental health professionals or the police, you are very likely being wildly irresponsible. not just to the world at large but very directly to the people around you. lab employees are fucking *people* with lives and families and loved ones. don't dehumanize them. and potentially radicalized mentally ill activists are people too, and will have their lives fucking destroyed by taking violent action as well!! so please, if you are in these spaces pay attention to your friends and acquaintances. stay safe.

@kendrictonn gonna have to order a set of the watercolors this time!

@duntsHat I'm looking forward to going up the mountain, probably tomorrow. Maybe the star fort tomorrow too, we'll take it as it goes

Here in Hakodate, we don't have access to the same luxuries you city folks in Tokyo do. We have to meet at the PS1 bear instead