IslaySmoke

You lose every argument because you’re incoherent. GLP-1s help people lose weight and show promise to fighting other addictions like alcohol and tobacco. If it’s a vast conspiracy to keep us sick, why would so many pharma companies be making them (and improving them)? Wouldn’t they hide the inventions? No, they sell them and make billions because drugs that work are popular. Shallow opportunists who hustle people looking for magic cures can’t reconcile how Evil Big Pharma invented the best peptides, so instead they whine about the prices to keep their phony morality play afloat. If these ROUs were so effective, wouldn’t they follow the GLP-1 playbook and profit massively? You can’t pick a lane and then rage quit. The audience can see what you’re all about and what you’re selling with your yellow pages list.

@IslaySmoke Whatever dude, I think you just like to pontificate. If you want to intentionally and selectively argue. Makes it not fun. You used AI to write your comment. I am too busy building to bullshit with anon accounts.

Shawn Ryan is awesome. Big fan of the platform and the curiosity. But this "anti-peptide doctor" logic from Louisa Nicola is sloppy. You cannot say no human RCTs have ever been done on peptides, then carve out GLP-1s and insulin because they wreck the claim.

You should ask your AI LLM to find the blockbuster peptides in the drug pipelines right now. The vast majority are metabolic & obesity peptides, proving my point. The handful of others are also highly-engineered and, yes, made by biotech/pharma firms. Again, proving my point. None of the current en vogue ROUs, whether BPC or Epitalon, etc., are on that list. You seem to think the lack of human trials means they *could* be effective, as if a lack of evidence isn't dispositive. You don't seem to grasp that if in vitro/rodent studies showed any potential, those human trials would happen. And in the case of BPC, they were a bust. But no, no, it's a vast conspiracy to make everyone sick. Not a single biotech company, anywhere in the world, is exempted from this effort to keep us in chronic pain and hide these magic elixers. Even the *guaranteed profits* from these cures aren't enough because these monsters are just that evil!

Yawn I will use the same logic you use to disprove against you. It's a totally MOOT point. Arguing about the evidence doesn't help either side. Show me the evidence it causes cancer or doesn't work. Conveniently, it doesn't exist. 1. They stopped the trials. Yeah, no shit. Biotech is expensive, money is a huge part of running them. Doesn't prove anything besides, money ran out. 2. Peptides cause cancer. Prove it. You cant. 3. Inconvenient truth: millions have taken peptides for years and not died, but gotten better and healed, lost weight etc. But thats right, that doesn't count. Should we all pretend because it is not patented it doesnt work? I hear you, I get it, I love rigorous intense science more than most. But come on, mosquitoes kill more people than peptides ever have. Your whole argument rests on, if it worked "obviously" big pharma would invest in it. Unless, they make more money, if you are fucking fat, tired and sick. It's so bizarre, to hear the anti-peptide evangelist, preach about how noble and righteous big Pharma has been over the decades. Peptides are new, interest is growing. Next 5-10 years will prove this out. And personally, what I love about all of this. Is AI is getting so good, we don't have to rely or rest on the "experts" I have 30 experts in my pocket that can read all the research better than any expert of the past ever could. Thank you Jesus for AI, and making life fun again.

Yes, and those original GLPs were all FDA-approved and heavily-engineered to last longer than a few minutes (unlike the peptide placebos that rubes like you are injecting). Exenatide, liraglutide, and dulaglutide were all Big Pharma creations. They required sequence modification, lipidation, or fc-fusion to overcome the body's ability to nearly instantly metabolize them. BPC-157 has none of these engineering necessities. You cannot explain BPC-157's mechanism of action, which receptors it interacts with, how it can have a systemic effect with a half-life that lasts minutes, or a single human trial that showed any efficacy or safety. But yeah, bro, body-builders, bro, they nailed it again, bro, chef's kiss, bro. Yeesh.

@IslaySmoke @PeptideList GLP drugs were used for years in the bodybuilding with great effects before they were picked up by big Pharma. The same applies to BPC. I understand it’s hard for you to use something that your mother hasn’t told you is safe but grow a set.

"Lilly just made $12.8B from two peptides in 90 days. Meanwhile the FDA is reopening compounding access for BPC-157, TB-500, and 8 others this July. Peptides aren't a trend. They're the next trillion-dollar therapeutic category. Most people just don't know what's available beyond Ozempic yet."

Lilly puts 20% of revenue back into R&D, and another 12% into CapEx (factories to make the medicine). That’s how new blockbuster drugs are developed. Are you saying that any American making less than $50K should get free GLPs from Lilly, as mandated by the federal government? Even in the UK, NHS usually doesn’t cover Zepbound and people pay U.S. prices. And again, Lilly’s margins (~80%) are still much lower than those gray market thieves (500-1,000%) who extol their own necessity/heroism in the name “access.” If you truly believe in this so deeply, you can buy the powder from China and give it away at cost. Clearly, you have the connections, as shown by your website, and don’t believe you’d be violating any laws.

@IslaySmoke @PeptideList Goodness gracious. They did $12B in Trizepatide in Q1. They paid off the billion R&D after the first week of the year. It’s literally dollars to make and retails between $299 to over $1k per month. Please stop.

Whats something you wished more people knew about peptides?

Nobody will die immediately from a lack of a GLP. They *will* die if they have cancer and can’t get Keytruda. Keytruda costs $150,000+ per year without insurance, so at least 500x more than a $300 monthly Zepbound Rx. Should Merck be forced to give Keytrudaaway for free because otherwise, people will die? Is your argument that “If someone needs the med, pharma shouldn’t be able to charge a market price?” And therefore theft by China is permissible? Or do you want full-blown Chavista socialism where any effective drug privately developed and financed by pharma becomes a public good?

@PeptideProSrc @PeptideList Lilly spent between $1.0-2.5 billion developing Tirzepatide. Their operating margin on TrumpRX pricing for Tirz is ~50% which is orders of magnitude lower than the gray market resellers (thieves) charging 5-10x (500-1,000%) their wholesale cost for Chinese pirated powder.

@IslaySmoke @PeptideList I’ll finish here. You are comparing 5-10x to 1000x. It’s not affordable for an average household. Asking for Medicaid reform from the same gov that just ensured big pharma can keep price gauging is funy. Not saying everything should be open market but these can change lives.

Respectfully, you're not addressing any of my points. Your view might be clouded by the fact that your website is essentially a "yellow pages" for the very shops I'm talking about: domestic resllers who import Chinese powder (stolen Lilly/Novo IP) and mark it up 5-10x for their own cut. So, their rampant profiteering is OK, as long as the net price is lower than Lilly's? Allowing Chinese pirates to steal American inventions and export unregulated powders is permissible because people "can't" pay $200 a month? Again, if you want reforms, Medicaid can expand coverage. And yes, even those below the poverty line typically have money for carnal vices (tobacco, drugs, booze, gambling, etc.). $200 per month isn't insurmountable. The next Keytruda requires pharma to earn a profit to fund the research and trials. It's easy to bash "m'uh Big Pharma" (who, while imperfect, actually save lives) while venerating the fly-by-night thieves who steal their inventions. But ultimately, you're arguing, "We need socialized medicine and all pharma drugs should basically be nearly free, otherwise we can steal them." And then when the drug pipeline goes bare, then who's to blame?

@IslaySmoke @PeptideList Again you continue to state that grey market vendors are on a moral mission. Never said anything close to that. Currently FDA approved drugs are insanely expensive for a typical household. Your theory that most people taking them are spending on porn, weed and alcohol is terrible

@alexaaronlab You post affiliate links for a peptide vendor reselling Chinese powder (stolen Lilly IP) at a 5-10x markup. $100 for 10mg of reta? Likely imported for $1-2 per mg from the Chinese labs. If it’s all about “civilian protection” & “access,” why charge so much? Spare us your piety.

FDA says yesterday about sema, tirz, and liraglutide “After careful review, we did not identify sufficient clinical need for outsourcing facilities to compound these drugs from bulk substances” Eli Lilly & Novo have been losing money to the compounding pharmacies and the FDA isn’t happy. This is pure market protection and NOT civilian protection. Man I feel bad for these telehealth clinics 503A compounding for these is still able to exist in certain occasions.

But you highlight a paradox of the gray market pimps: (1) "It's just a handful of people buying Chinese powder, Lilly isn't losing much revenue, this isn't a big deal, calm down, bro." (2) "But also, millions can't afford GLP-1s (even with a discount or insurance), and so they have a right to steal Lilly's IP via gray market imports from Chinese thieves." Which is it? Is there any limit to scale of gray market where it becomes problemic? Is the ultimate argument a that Lilly must drop prices by 90%, or else large-scale theft by China is permissible? So, Lilly has no right to recoup the billions they invested in R&D and clinical trials and then profit from their novel invention so they can invest in future blockbuster drugs? The federal government and states, via price negotiation and coverage decisions, can increase access via Medicaid for those below the poverty line. Unpopular to say, but many of those claiming they can't afford $200/month for "life-saving" GLPs probably have a budget for weed, alcohol, gambling, porn, and other wasteful vices. Additionally, GLP-1s aren't "life-saving" in the acute way that Keytruda is. Obesity is a co-morbidity, but it's not pancreatic cancer. Keytruda can cost >$150,000 per year without insurance. Should it be free? Again, if the domestic resellers cared so much about "access," they wouldn't be charging 5-10x markups for the powder they import. This isn't a moral mission for them. They're no different than guys selling fake Rolex watches and Gucci bags on Canal Street in NYC. The resellers are cashing as quickly as possible before the doors shuts. They're the endpoint dealers for Chinese bandits. They don't care about anybody but themselves.

@IslaySmoke @PeptideList Not saying it’s charity or Reta over Ozempic. Your average American can’t afford the thousands of % markup put on their drugs. It’s literally not accessible for millions who need it at the price they are asking.

But the resellers (e.g., “Apex Alpha Peptide Bro, Inc.”) are simply relabeling Chinese lyophilized powder, not obtaining it from domestic compounding pharmacies. There’s no “life-saving” need for retatrutide versus Zepbound or Ozempic. If states or the feds want to negotiate discounts (like via TrumpRX), they can, or offer more robust coverage via Medicare and Medicaid. Resellers hide behind a bogus “Robin Hood” ethics of excusing or celebrating their theft by saying, “It increases access.” If that’s the case, why are they all taking their cut? Many of them mark up the price 5-10x per vial after importing it. They’re not running a charity. The sins of Pharma don’t excuse the craven piracy of the gray market, or the reckless “longevity/wellness” doctors encouraging naive patients to inject peptides with scant/no human clinical trial data for efficacy or safety.

@IslaySmoke @PeptideList Fair to question the IP angle. But compounders were legally allowed to prescribe these recently because demand far outpaced what name brands could supply. And I’d challenge anyone to draw a clean line between pharma profitability and life saving access.

Yes! Peptide resellers think "research only" is a magical shield against their participation in industrial-scale theft by China, flagrantly violating state and federal laws. But it's meaningless, esp. when they're instructing buyers on how to reconstitute and inject the imported, stolen IP they're hawking. It'd be like running a streaming site with pirated movies from Russian torrents and saying, "I'm immune because I said it was for 'educational purposes only!" When the crackdown happens, do they think FDA, FTC, DOJ, or state's Attorney General will care about their irrelevant disclaimers? Or the medical licensing boards won't sanction doctors pushing patients to inject Category 2 peptides that can't even be legally compounded in the U.S? When Lilly, Novo, and other IP holders sue them civilly, do they think the courts will rules that it's OK to steal their inventions because the vials said ROU? Totally delusional. Similarly, the "not medical advise" disclaimer is meaningless. It's *always* followed by medical advice, like clockwork. The clickbait doctors (mostly chiropractors, not real MDs) who engage in that practice have immense liability. It's a swamp and the arrogance and false piety of the ringleaders is exhausting.

All great questions. Once I started digging. My biggest surprise was the RUO myth. Doesn’t hold up in court at all. Meaning all the grey vendors are going to be looking at massive problems if the state picks up the case. But this is RUO only! Yeah but your social media has videos of you reconstituting and marketing for consumption not in vivo.

@DrDeepMD Your patients use Epitalon? Does that mean you’re advising them to inject an FDA Category 2 substance? If so, how would they/you obtain it, other than from Chinese gray market labs, since domestic compounders can’t legally make it? Does your state licensing board allow this?

I’m pretty convinced, personally, on the power of Epitalon, so I made this guide below to share with you all Have run several cycles myself and increasingly have patients reporting same outcomes I’ve seen others state it’s “not a sleep peptide”. That’s…not really true… Khavinson frames it as a geroprotector But strongest mechanism is restoration of melatonin synthesis and normalization of cortisol, both of which are major causes of sleep disruption From his 2001 monkey study: “Epitalon was proven to significantly stimulate melatonin synthesis in senescent monkeys in the evening, thereby normalising the circadian rhythm of cortisol secretion.” Of course, many other impacts like decelerated cardiovascular aging, prevented age-associated impairment of physical endurance, and improved carbohydrate and lipid metabolism But, in today’s day and age, anything that can give us a natural melatonin boost and chill out our cortisol, is going to solve most of our biggest problem: sleep July FDA hearing to decide if approved for insomnia Wild times ahead!

@TheHyland3r It would be the equivalent of a paywalled article entitled, "How to Get Cheap Movies" where he lists Russian streaming sites that steal American films. Instead of cinema, it's pharma. He's Mr. Edgelord Patriot but pimps industrial-scale Chinese theft so he can make a few bucks.

@IslaySmoke @cremieuxrecueil Not sure what you’re talking about. I’ve never seen Crèmieux advocating to break laws.

The median gray market peptide sample has: - Pharmaceutical-grade purity - Pharmaceutical-grade fill (relative to label) This was a quite reassuring finding about the gray market!

@FitDadRx For decades, the gray market was mostly anabolic steroids, HGH, and other body-builder injections. Now, it's an industrial-scale Chinese piracy operation, stealing American innovation and reaping billions from selling stolen IP (GLP-1s). Pharma's sins don't excuse this.

@IslaySmoke Don’t totally disagree with you. This has been going on for decades why haven’t they closed the loop hole either? And Pharma companies haven’t exactly shown themselves to be the good guys in a lot of cases.

RUO companies next up? Might want to be stocked up just in case.

@TheHyland3r @cremieuxrecueil His article is called "how to get cheap Ozempic." He explains how to buy retatrutide (Eli Lilly's IP) which has been stolen by Chinese labs that copied the patent data and export the powder to domestic "resellers." China is the sole source. This market breaks numerous U.S. laws.

@TheHyland3r @cremieuxrecueil But he needs to keep drawing rubes to his paywalled article that links sources for Chinese pirated batches of American IP (GLP-1s), a gray market that violates America’s regulatory, civil, and criminal laws. Quite a side-hustle for a guy who opines on the ethics of others.

@cremieuxrecueil Where would we be without our Crèmishrink ensuring us that our peptides are pure

@cremieuxrecueil Not tested: (1) Endotoxins (2) Sterility (3) Heavy metals (4) Net Peptide Content (e.g., how much of the powder is filler?). An HPLC purity test doesn’t measure this (5) TFA salts (6) Toxic solvents You’re giving false assurances. At best, you’re ignorant; at worst, unethical.