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Angleesihalak
47 posts
@LizPeecock @Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview sounds intense. it's so important to ensure patient safety above all. working under supervision seems crucial while gaining experience. hope everyone involved stays focused on what's best for the patients.
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As Sandeep rightly says, replacing doctors with noctors is about money, as it usually is. ACPs and PAs are not medically qualified. A two year Master’s is not equivalent to 11 years of medical training. Direction is clear: you will either pay to see a doctor, or accept a noctor.
Dr Sandeep Bansal@iDrSunny
Maxi nursing = mini doctoring according to the NHS A reminder - whatever you call this role - whether ANP or PA - it is a doctor replacement role and it’s giving the public in Scotland a third grade (at best) healthcare Only those of you that can afford it will be able to see a doctor
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@DrGW0 @TheSnoozeDoctor I’m not sure what you mean by FHEQ 6&7 years are missing 6 months but our last year was mainly clinical placement with one day a week in uni.
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@Angleesihalak @TheSnoozeDoctor 4 years in total ? 1600 hours over 2 years? So 2 years undergrad. then 2 part-time years of placements? Something doesn't add up. Both the FHEQ 6&7 years are missing 6 months.
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@Anisocyte @medicalmodelbri @LizPeecock @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Thanks for your reply, I think I would agree with you honestly.
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @LizPeecock @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview I don’t know where I’d pitch it, if I’m honest. I know it’s not a masters. MScs require independent research, where this requires a less robust dissertation.
As for how it was allowed to happen, universities stood to make a lot of money, and people like Jeremy Hunt funded it.
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@LizPeecock @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Ok, I didn’t say I found the course difficult but it wasn’t always easy.
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview This is what the Leng review wanted. A change in name to assistant because that is the level your course qualified you to. PAs need to listen to doctors and not assume that because they found a course difficult it led to a higher qualification than assistant.
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@medicalmodelbri @LizPeecock @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview @rcgp @RCPhysicians I don’t mind doing that. I guess I’m upset that I was sold something very different by my university who said we would see undifferentiated patients etc. etc.
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@Angleesihalak @LizPeecock @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview You’re demeaning the title of assistant . You’re literally assistants. There to assist Drs . Nothing wrong with that . The role would be very helpful to Drs , a Godsend , if PAs genuinely ASSISTED Drs and worked within the @rcgp / @RCPhysicians scope guidance
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@Anisocyte @medicalmodelbri @Oxfordite @2manypeople4me @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Thanks for saying that I appreciate it!
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @Oxfordite @2manypeople4me @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview While I’m sorry you didn’t get to do the course you wanted, I’m not sure why having not studied Medicine, you’re expecting to be able to practise it?
I’m not being harsh, but even GMC accepts MPAS isn’t Medicine, and PAs aren’t medically qualified or trained.
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@LizPeecock @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Sure I’d happy to be supervised, but there are no jobs! 😭
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview patients lives at risk unless you work as an assistant where the doctor decides what you can do under supervision. You are not safe for patients working without a doctor watching you. You will risk the lives of any patient that you think you can work with on your own.
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@Anisocyte @medicalmodelbri @LizPeecock @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Ok. Can I ask, in your opinion do you think it’s equivalent to an NVQ level 3 and if so how was that allowed to happen?
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @LizPeecock @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview I’ve reviewed the old content map, the updated content map, the new PASC curriculum that the GMC uses, and several individual courses.
I’ve also reviewed the GMC outcomes for PARA vs MLA.
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@LizPeecock @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview And there is no way a level 7 course can be allowed to be advertised as such but is really an NVQ level 3?! Surely?!
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Our point that you have missed is that you are not safe working with patients. Doctors are telling you that you are their assistants. You are not equals. Doctors are telling you that what PAs think they can do is not safe for patients. You are doing a job that puts
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@LizPeecock @Oxfordite @skynetbuffering @medicalmodelbri @2manypeople4me @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview I did the access in 2019
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@Oxfordite @skynetbuffering @medicalmodelbri @Angleesihalak @2manypeople4me @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview It sounds as if there was no career advice at this person's school. They needed to know that the A levels were too low in standard and in the wrong subjects for medicine before all the access course stuff.
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@LizPeecock @Oxfordite @skynetbuffering @medicalmodelbri @2manypeople4me @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview You aren’t paying attention Liz. I went to school 20 years ago
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@Angleesihalak @LizPeecock @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview We’ve seen the curriculum . Course specifications etc . @Anisocyte has gone into this in depth . We know what you’ve studied .
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@2manypeople4me @LizPeecock @DocEmUK @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview @Anisocyte Just had a look and I think he’s using the old framework.
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@Angleesihalak @LizPeecock @DocEmUK @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview You have not looked at the differences?
@Anisocyte has done a whole thread on it
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview PAs do help doctors they make more work for them I am being told that anything a PA does has to be done again by a doctor for safety of the patients. This doesn't help doctors. The kind of roles that do help doctors are what doctors assistants do. That role already
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@DrGW0 @Oldboatie @Roddy_Neilson @2manypeople4me @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Don’t worry it was drummed into us at university too. We were told by the south east school of PA’s that we should make the distinction when we introduce ourselves to patients and explain our role.
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@Oldboatie @Roddy_Neilson @Angleesihalak @2manypeople4me @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview I had 12 years of training, post grad, post doc, clinical, specialist etc, and I've helped train registrars. It was drummed in to me that I'm not a medical Doctor. The boundaries are obvious to me.
The PA professional boundary erosion is scary.
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@LizPeecock @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Maybe in the short term but when a certain level has been reached by a PA surely the consultant would have more trust in them and allow more autonomous practice according to what they agree, that PA can handle and is responsible to do. As far as I see this is what happens abroad
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Because the level of supervision required would mean that a doctor would need to be standing next to you when you were with a patient and checking everything that you were doing. It would be quicker and better for the doctor to just do the job on their own.
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@LizPeecock @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview I thought we weren’t meant to be seeing undifferentiated patients 🤷♂️
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview patients. This is what the Leng review was for to make sure that for patient safety PAs should not be treating patients. The Leng review said that the name had to be changed to assistants so that patients were clear that PAs were not doctors and were not medically qualified.
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@LizPeecock @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview Agree with the first bit medicine is much much harder. Under supervision why would we not be safe or at least become safe?!
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@Angleesihalak @medicalmodelbri @TheSnoozeDoctor @lengreview is no comparison between the PA studies course and medicine. Medicine is much much harder and has much more information in it. This is why people must have a medical degree to be safe to treat patients. This is what the doctors are telling you. PAs are not safe to treat
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