CK

@MarkRichardson2 @MadelaineLucyH "Being nice ia not like some entry level requirement that qualifies you for consideration." Dude, YES IT IS. MAYBE LISTEN TO WOMEN; YOU'RE TALKING TO ONE. The women you're describing are called gold diggers, and you shouldn't want to be with them anyway.

@CKaccess @MadelaineLucyH It's deeper than this. Being nice is not like some entry level requirement that qualifies you for consideration. It's not what women are considering much at all. If you as a man have perceived social value, then you will attract interest from women, even if you are disagreeable.

Ok let’s explore the “She Rejected Me Because I’m Nice” myth. This is Janine, you work with her. She’s fine: a solid fine. Not unbelievably pretty, not hideous, just fine. Could easily work at any Walmart. Janine is nice to you. You’re nice to Janine, because you have no reason not to be. Why would you be horrible? You joke around, make small talk at the office printer. You don’t fancy her and it never crossed your mind. One day, Janine asks if you want to get coffee at lunch. You say yes, because she’s never shown any romantic interest in you and it’s not that kind of bond. At the cafe, Janine looks at you and strokes your hand and goes “I really see this going somewhere, like forever.” You aren’t feeling it. She gets upset and accuses you of only liking bad girls. Have you rejected Janine because she’s “too nice?”

@megletalon @Salazar_Matthew @MadelaineLucyH You can't force yourself to sleep with someone *just* because he "treats you well" and not expect it to take its toll on you and on the relationship eventually. But a lot of women never say these things out loud for fear of judgement, mostly from other women.

@megletalon @Salazar_Matthew @MadelaineLucyH Or it's somehow seen as "shallow" to actually want to be attracted to your partner physically, and that in a "real," "mature" relationship, that kind of stuff won't matter so much as whether or not he's a 'good' man. Except it does, of course, matter -- you can't force feelings.

@Salazar_Matthew @MadelaineLucyH You know what, I'll agree with this. I do think a lot of women have either been taught or feel the need to downplay their sexuality/the importance of physical attraction, and that's a mindset that often ends up with a bad situation for everyone involved.

@MadelaineLucyH The incel thing is a response to women saying "I just want someone nice".The bigger problem is that many women don't just openly say they want a partner they're attracted to so we have to add in the Hollywoodisms. Many people want a conventionally attractive partner and that's ok

@John_Cyrano @MadelaineLucyH Just switch the sexes again.

@John_Cyrano @MadelaineLucyH ...baffled how you seem not to understand that what you're saying is the entire point of this post.

@AdamShumpis @MadelaineLucyH ...the reason this post was made is precisely because of men like you who "cannot fathom" how the inverse of an interaction like this feels for a woman. So the sexes were switched to illustrate that. Literally the whole point of the post. Peak irony.

@MadelaineLucyH You can tell a woman wrote this by not being able to fathom how it works for the other end of her experience, as is typical with most women.

@MarkRichardson2 @MadelaineLucyH Yeah, "just be nice, so that women will be willing to be in a room with you, get to know you, and then see whether or not they feel anything romantic for you." Not, "just be nice and they'll automatically want to sleep with you." Kinda common sense that that's insane.

@MadelaineLucyH Madelaine, I think this misses the point. Young men are told "just be nice to women and you'll find someone". They then discover that this is untrue, that niceness is not what women are filtering for, and they feel they've been lied to. We have issues telling young men the truth.

@bedrot_barbie And I just personally think that those writers were the ones who had the *better* ideas. But all this to say, I don't think Mike's queercoding was at all "obvious." If anything, it was subtle and inconsistent. And I don't think it makes anyone stupid to think that.

@bedrot_barbie Remember that ST was only originally supposed to be a one season show. Mike and El were always supposed to be the main couple. I do think as the show went on though, certain writers started having other ideas that found their way in to the show.

Not liking byler is one thing, but you gotta be genuinely stupid to have watched entirety of Stranger Things and say you never picked up on the subtext and symbolism behind byler and Mike's queercoding

@bxkigx2 As a woman who's not particularly feminine and isn't attracted to stereotypical masculine men, a bi guy who's maybe more artsy/a go with the flow type (doesn't want to be in control or lead like some men do) would actually be ideal. And we'd get to talk about other guys tg!

what woman would willingly date a bi male

@AccordingToLee And the worst part is many could be attractive if they wanted to. How many times do you see a schlubby 50 year old man, and then a really attractive, fit, 50 year old man... ...and the difference between them is just the attractive one's gay, and actually takes care of himself?

There’s a conversation happening on TikTok where the girls are finally talking about how a lot of men aren’t actually attractive. Like you go to the grocery store and see a ton of stunning women, but men? You will remember how many months back you last saw a hot man.

@donvaldezx @AccordingToLee That's the opposite of golddigging??? What are you even talking about. Gd's are with their partners not bc they're actually into them but for $. Wanting to actually be attracted to your partner is the way it's supposed to be. If you want your gf to be pretty are you a gd too?

@AccordingToLee The fact that women now care about a man’s looks is a reaction to the reality that most women are gold diggers to some degree. There aren’t enough men with money, so what’s the alternative? They better be attractive.

@maebyfunkefan Aside from how disrespectful to the audience it is to have the epilogue be a tribute to the actors instead of the characters -- Natalia and Charlie, who've been together for 10 years and met on the show -- duffers had to break their characters up first for no real reason?

Devoting nearly an hour of the last episode of your show to coddling the actors and letting them cosplay atp they should’ve had el come back married to Bon Jovi’s son like let’s do whatever!

@roniwithana @aletheia327 When it comes to nebulous concepts like emotions, everybody ends up defining things differently. Thanks for the interesting discussion. ✌️

@roniwithana @aletheia327 Idk, for me, personally, my like, definition of what an ideal 'romantic relationship' is is "Best Friends + physical/sexual attraction" and I guess I view 'romantic feelings' or even 'being in love' as the feelings produced by both of those things existing together.

My hot take is that straight people compulsively date each other even while experiencing zero actual attraction in order to pick up that social privilege and if they're lucky, develop feelings later, and that's why they don't recognize that demisexuality is something different.

@roniwithana @aletheia327 Nah, 'physical attr.' implies sexual. Mothers have a great desire to snuggle and cuddle their babies but you don't say they're physically attracted to them. And as for me at least, there is no romantic attraction that exists aside from physical attraction. :/

@CKaccess @aletheia327 Wanting to be around them = friendship. Wanting to be around them all the time, thinking about them constantly, butterflies = romantic attraction. Phys attr. is wanting closeness (touch, cuddling), while sex attr is wanting sexual intimacy, they can overlap but arent the same

@roniwithana @aletheia327 "Wanting to be around them" is friendship. And as for the rest, yeah, I would never feel that way towards anyone I wasn't attracted to. That's why I don't know how so-called romantic attraction can be decoupled from the physical. Also "phys attr. ≠ sex. Attr." Huh?

@CKaccess @aletheia327 Romantic = thinking about them all the time, wanting to be around them, butterflies, imagining a future together. Platonic = caring deeply, feeling comfortable, enjoying time together without that constant pull. Physical attraction ≠ sexual attraction. Its 2 different feelings

@roniwithana @aletheia327 But they were also confused because they devalued how important sex and attraction is actually supposed to be in nonplatonic relationships. And you didn't actually answer the question: the feelings associated with Best Friends vs. Romantic feelings -- what's the difference?

@CKaccess @aletheia327 romantic feelings are not the same as platonic feelings. tho i agree that the baseline for romantic attraction to grow on is platonic feelings. late in life lesbians were confused because of exactly the fact that many straight women talk in a certain way about their partner.