DA OOGIE BOOGIE

@Supatease what happened in this key to cut a +7 this close in the easiest m+ season of all time

Midnight feels like the best time to try out content you haven't before.

@jpalma0396 @humzhlol @RiotPhroxzon 58% player could be lower than 52% after playing 20 games tho

@humzhlol @RiotPhroxzon This just puts the people who can play more in an unfair advantage. A person who plays 20 games a day with 52% winrate will be higher LP than someone who plays only 5 with 58%. 58% WR player is better but is ranked lower as he doesn’t grind the game

Apex Ranked Followup Thank you for all your feedback about the changes last week. I wanted to give some explanations on what we're seeing and why it is how it is right now; I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, but I hope being transparent will lead to more constructive conversations with everyone Feedback we heard 1. The ladder has less meaningful breakpoints to strive for, now that the LP gaps between Master, Grandmaster, Challenger and Rank1 are really wide in a few regions (NA, EUW, EUN mainly). The gaps between tiers can feel exhaustingly large with low feedback and satisfaction on the journey from say low masters to high masters 2. It also makes comparison to previous season benchmarks lose meaning (1k LP, 2k LP, etc.) 3. Many are calling for an Apex Ranked reset; I'd love to know more about exactly what you mean by this (more below) 4. The ladder already felt grindy, like you had to play a lot of games to get to the next tier, and now it feels even more so 5. The top players getting +30/-10 even if their MMR is high feels unfair if a new or lower account can't do that; there are feelings of “how can I catch that” 6. Depending on which patch someone played, with the same winrates, their LP outcomes can be quite different, which is frustrating On who is getting +30/-10 and who is +/-20 - There have been a lot of discussions around who is getting good gains and who is not - We agree it feels unfair right now for the top of the ladder to be getting +30 while others are getting +20; I just wanted to explain why this is - This is because the weeks many players spent eating +10/-30 from the soft cap is being repaid; essentially for every game that a player played a +10/-30LP game, they will get paid back with +30/-10LP ones and this will grow the top of the ladder (similar to how the max LP on the ladder grows early in the season) - Once the ladder stabilizes, 95+% of the ladder (including the top of the ladder and including masters entrants at the bottom) is intended to get +/-20 - This means the only way to climb the ladder is to have a >50% winrate - If you have a 50% winrate over a long period, then you’re probably in the right skill level and are not in a climbing state - I also want to state this very clearly as a response to folks saying they should roll a fresh account to fight the Challenger LP gains. There is no advantage to running a fresh account up the ladder to try and hit an Apex rank, it will always be better to start with a pre-existing Apex account - I know it didn’t work like this in Seasons past, but it does now (and has for the past season or two) and this is to further disincentivize smurfing, something many players on the ladder had mentioned as a pain point - The only way to climb from this state is to improve skill level - I can guarantee that a Challenger player will be able to climb just fine with +/-20 given enough games, because they will have a very high winrate through Master and Grandmaster, but this leads me to my next point On ladder grindiness - We hear your concerns on needing to play too many games to climb up the ladder - It is true that older accounts that played their accounts up to challenger will be advantaged in Season reset races with the way we currently do soft rank resets - We do this because we want to make camping spots less effective of a strategy, dissuade smurfing, and encourage people to play on their main accounts - If the legacy accounts are not advantaged, there is no blocker to just running many fresh accounts through the Ranked ladder to hit Challenger; I think most players would agree that would be a worse experience - Secondly, as soon as Challenger players run into negative LP gains, many will stop playing on their Challenger accounts and move to smurfing, which is bad for match quality and queue times as well - We believe the high LP values are a better alternative to negative LP gains, but they are both not ideal - Additionally, we have daily game requirements and cap the max LP gains at 30 so that players don't camp on their spots without playing so that others have more opportunities to overtake them - In a world where a new Masters account has a 75% winrate through the Apex ladder (ie. is probably a top 10 player), that is 300 games to get to 3000LP from 0LP - If you are starting from a legacy account, it will be significantly less games than this - We don't believe it should be possible to be able to get to Rank 1 from a fresh account in less than 2-300 games. That makes smurfing, running up multiple accounts and maintaining them too attractive of an option - For one of the premier competitive games, we don't believe it is too much to ask for a player to play 1-2 games a day (between 3-700 games a year for the highest skill players in the game). Genre expectations to reach the top in many other games (including other MOBA’s) can be orders of magnitude higher than this and often require full time grinding - On the flip side, we acknowledge that there's a sweet spot on how much a player needs to play to not perceive it as too grindy, many people have to study, have jobs, etc and so it needs to be achievable for them too - We want to balance all these considerations; reducing incentives to smurf, how grindy it feels to achieve/maintain a rank and how legacy accounts are treated On why the LP is so high - I saw a comment asking whether the gap between Iron and Master (2800LP) is really equivalent to the gap between Master and Rank1 Challenger (2, 3, 4000LP) - In some regions, the answer to that is yes, in others, it's not quite as large, but still close - Players have gotten significantly better each year, especially with how often the top players are boot camping, taking a shot at Pro and learning from it, and pushing each other to get better - This is one of the reasons why the LP gaps between tiers are so high and the existence of the soft caps in previous years ended up suppressing the observed top LP's by some amount, so the gap looked lower than it actually was - Factually, there is a huge gap in skill between Master and Grandmaster and again from Grandmaster to Challenger so amount of points between them has to be reasonably large - This is a very common pattern in long running games, for example in Chess, Magnus Carlsen vs any random Grandmaster has close to a 90% chance to win - As League goes on, the gap between Rank1 (say Showmaker) and Master 0 LP is going to continue to widen; there are so many things you can do to influence the team in small but meaningful ways that aren’t super noticeable individually but have a huge impact over the course of a game, like pinging, shotcalling, soaking pressure, getting vision, etc. - But there's a fine balance here, we can agree that progression between tiers can feel daunting in the current tuning and there is a lacking sense of progression. This is why we’re considering adding additional tiers to break this up and create more “checkpoints” On Matchmaking Quality - There are some expectations of being able to have full challenger lobbies, all duos balanced, all role parity (on-role vs off-role), low queue times, all equal LP, remove autofill at all times of day - I want to set an expectation that this is not possible with only 300 Challengers and 700 Grandmasters in many regions - Players need to be autofilled, especially at the top of the ladder for us to make queue times reasonable, but we can at least try to make those autofills balanced in role - If a game is unbalanced in one of the axes above, we try to balance it out in another axis, but we are sometimes going to have to grab some Masters players to fill Challengers lobbies (hopefully not during peak time) - Especially with the new role parity algorithm, we believe we are making very fair games (close to 50% chance to win) in >90% of situations, with close LP between teams, duo balance, role parity - We believe the new algorithm is already significantly better than the old one, even though there may be some rose tinted glasses about how much better Matchmaking was before, which we don't agree with. We are still improving it Why do Challengers get +30LP, even when there are 200 LP masters in the game - LP gains are given based on how fair the match is and mentioned above, over 90% of matches have 50% chance to win - The reason why the Challengers are getting +30 for these games is because of the repayment of debt in the points above; this will resolve itself soon and the players will quickly go back to +-20 - If the match itself is 50% chance for either team to win, then the performance of the various people in the game is already baked into the LP gains (ie. the 200 LP master is expected to play worse, the Challenger is expected to play better) - There will usually be something offsetting this LP imbalance (whether it’s an extra duo on one team, someone playing secondary instead of autofill, etc.) - As I mentioned above, we believe >90% of our games are fair; it can be hard to guarantee fairness in off-peak and/or in small regions Other things we're thinking about (nothing confirmed) - [Agree] Many players are calling for better feelings of progression and progress in these tiers - [Agree] Reductions of grindiness (eg. more decay game banks, increasing max LP gain past +30LP, lowering distance between tiers, adding new tiers) - [Agree] Better reasons to maintain and play on Challenger accounts, rather than Smurf - [Uncertain] Adding more Grandmaster/Challenger slots to regions that have high numbers of players (which would bring the points between tiers down) - [Uncertain] Reducing how much advantage players get on their legacy accounts from start of Season (eg. capping at +25LP at max, instead of +30LP), but this will also further incentivize smurfing and increase feelings of grindiness - [Agree] Lower the amount of resetting at start of Seasons (eg. maybe start the Season at Master 0LP) More on Apex resets - To get a better understanding of what y'all mean by ladder reset, some possibilities are detailed below, - Not committing to any particular action or if we would even do any of these, but we want to better understand your intent when some of you ask for a reset. We definitely are far out from talking about a “when” at this point - If we went forward with any of these we would only reset a few regions as the vast majority of regions have had a normal season - We will be doing some research in the affected regions to help inform a call one way or the other - We would only consider a reset if we are confident it would result in an improved overall experience Option 1: Hard Reset - Early matchmaking will be a cluster****. There would be no memory of previous season ranks in Matchmaking - This means you could have 5 exChallenger vs 5 Master peakers, and that would be considered a fair game in the system - Even if a player is Challenger, they might have a team of Masters and be unable to carry hard enough vs a pretty stacked team on the other side, making the climbing process feel very RNG - This matchmaking quality would go on for months as the ladder sorts itself out, which would contribute to a negative experience for a good amount of players - Early season this year was a bit of a taste of this as we did a bit of a harder reset, and matchmaking quality would be significantly worse than that. This would be the most extreme option - We still don't believe this is a good idea, but if y'all are still wanting to push for it given this context, then the team can continue to discuss it Option 2: Softer Resets - Soft Reset would keep some semblance of normalcy in matchmaking, but the best players will be rewarded for being high on the ladder with better position on the starting blocks so to speak. Previous challengers would get increased gains (+30/-10) well into their climbs - The softest option would be everyone keeping their relative positions in the ladder but would need to maintain their current winrate to prove they belong there and reach their previous LP value

@Shadarek like if u gonna increase the bosses health without increasing loot drops whats the point ?

@Shadarek i think most people dont see a reason to bring more people if it doesnt increase loot. bring people who arent locked = more things to roll on, dont bring people who are locked = smaller raid/better scaling. bring people who are locked = worse raid size and less things to roll on

I wish I had a way to explain why somebody being loot locked in your run isn't 'stealing your loot' but god people are bullheaded about it. You add 5 people to a raid who don't roll an item and also can't roll on items, it's the exact same on average.

@GaLogicTTV @HelloImDr3w @FelrynX tune the boss to pre-nerf kyveza (maybe harder) so the slots dont fill up in 6 hours, or dont have it be numbers based. this time around it was just an employment check, whoever 1) takes the game remotely seriously and 2) had the free time to game at midday on a weekday got it

@GaLogicTTV @HelloImDr3w @FelrynX too many people dont get home on a weekday until like 6pm for it to be well received if its numbers based. i dont see how an achievement for killing it at some point in a 4 month period means you can have another one for killing it in the first 24 hours or first week.

tried as boomkin what is the delve team smoking why is the difficulty such night and day shit is genuinely free on shadow priest and then i get killed in 5hits on boomy

@GaLogicTTV @HelloImDr3w @FelrynX nah just have ir be an AOTC/CE style achieve for everyone who beats the nemesis in heroic week, or in the first 24 hours of the season, etc. bad idea to restrict it to purely numbers with so many different timezones and how low of a challenge it is

@HelloImDr3w @FelrynX They should have set the HOF per-class/spec so each Class/Spec would hold like 200-400 spots.

@Chimperr @root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo it is. u can test this with a friend !

@DaOogieboogie @root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo No the fuck it isnt??? Why are you lying for zero gain??

🤪

@root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo that is wrong ur ilvl in group finder is based on best in bags

@DaOogieboogie @ScareyQ @adeptxo equipped item level is everything that counts and multiple items for the same slot still do not increase your average nor your equipped ilvl

@root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo i havent done an m0 in a week and a half, are u sure ur replying to the right person

@DaOogieboogie @ScareyQ @adeptxo I understand the game. So yeah, doing m0 with ilvl 245 makes no sense at all. If you understood the game, you'd know that. Setting the ilvl requirement so high means "i have shitty gear and want to geht carried by people who don't need anything"

@root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo i swear its always people who understand the game the least that complain the most and the loudest

@DaOogieboogie @ScareyQ @adeptxo Multiple items for the same slot does not increase your item level. If you already have item level 245, you don't need m0. It's wild to set the item level that drop in the instance as a requirement. Stop defending that nonsense.

@S12_Schokt @root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo this guy replied and blocked me lmao what a loser

@S12_Schokt @root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo no because i have friends lol

@root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo even if the gear u get is useless, it still bring up ur max ilvl in bags which helps u get in to groups. idk, seems wild 2 complain about this kind of thing so early in a season.

@DaOogieboogie @ScareyQ @adeptxo And none of the things you just listed are WQs. So far, I've gotten 4 head items, 3 neck items, and 3 useless trinkets, from the content listed above.

@root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo was replying to the “bare minimum effort” comment, not the wq comment. sounds like even with ur bad luck u still have 246 in 2 slots and 259 in one slot, enough crests to upgrade the rest to 237 if all else u had was adventurer gear. 2 hrs of effort = too much ?

@root666 @ScareyQ @adeptxo just do 2x nightmare prey + 2x hard preys + 6 tier 8 bountiful delves + delve map and tell me u are not 245. takes 2 hours.

The highest item level for WQ items is 237 after upgrading. I'm wearing 6 items at 250+ and my item level is still at 238,69. To reach an average item level of 245, you need items above 245 in most slots. Mythic drops 246. Now show me how you get to 245 with WQ items... Demanding an item level of 245 when only 246 drops is just bullshit.

@allyparser @LiquidGuild thank u for ur service 🫡

It’s that time again where I say goodbye to my husband. Putting his life on the line for our country… today we bid him farewell to fight in the war against EU. 🫡 God Bless America. And good luck in the World of Warcraft: Race to World First. @LiquidGuild

@ForeverGuy5 nah its the sims with potion and bloodlust that do it for me. ppl have haste get giga de-vauled for 90% of a fight because they have like almost 30% haste for 40 seconds of a 5 min fight

The year is 20xx, people are still using patchwork sims to evaluate how good their spec is in raid

@jdotb they just need 2 offer fat contracts to one or two of the power gamers who min max everything and find all the juicy exploitable bugs on beta to be QA testers. so many of the things ""fixed"" since launch were quietly known on certain gatekeeping discords for months xdd

I just genuinely don't understand how you can have a beta up for several months and then need to buff/nerf specs by 20% after launch