David O'Brien

@Paultalk44 @JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam Not Gombrich himself but those kind of ideas of society shaping art and the artist as a vessel to challenge the ‘change/progress’ But in general he as focused on the artist being responsible

@DavidOB87552057 @JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam wow... I thought Gombrich was better than that... if that's him...

Capturing Time with Metaphysics @Dob:7/CapturingTimewithMetaphysics:1?r=2qKNfrpmiu6nV3mdENaVrnu5D7kEUgPn" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">odysee.com/@Dob:7/Capturi… #Odysee via @OdyseeTeam

@JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam Life drawing is one thing, but I'm not sure it so easily adds up to good composition or a decorative integration

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam Well we have a tried and tested method which was life drawing, which was reintroduced during the Renaissance. Since that has been demolished and made amateurish by modernists, painting standards have declined. You cannot teach Modernism, it just leads to bad painting.

@Paultalk44 @JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam I'm not sure, it bounced around the Server when talking about originally and invention in art, I think its a summation of Ernst Gombrich's Story of Art

@DavidOB87552057 @JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam who wrote this??

@Paultalk44 @OdyseeTeam A very personal response, I was surprised by your views on the hierarchy in art, I must have misunderstood your views on this before

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam @Paul-talk:b/Reacting-to-David-O%27Brien:7?r=EecUzQS7johi8yCBAR3mLLGUVVAEWSFy" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">odysee.com/@Paul-talk:b/R…

@JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam Hmm seems they wouldn't be truth then, if with more science and understanding they fell into a fail state. Universal truths would be in a true state regardless of circumstance

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam The human being has some universal truth, but technology and science are demolishing even them, one by one.

@JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam So you don't see any hierarchy, types of painting that have the most pros or create the least cons?

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam That is what i mean, 'True Painting' is purely subjective. There are different aspects to painting, and painters can focus on different aspects. Each aspect has its pros and cons. It is the choices the artists makes.

@JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam Yes but then can we have any universal truths if it's all guess work/subjuctive to our chosen system?

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam Lets face it Philosophy is human guesswork. It is also human-centric. We don't know enough about reality to pin it down, and maybe that is a good thing.

@JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam What the universal truths of painting if True Paintings truth are only subjective?

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam Well time changes art and the environment that art is created in, but great art has universal truths or some sublime quality that eventually transcends time, like a Leighton and a Delaroche.

@JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam 'On the Prejudices of Philosophers' perhaps but can some fundamental rules be said to be necessary, can we make paintings without paint

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam 'True painting' is the most ideological thesis ever created, it has it roots in Marxism. It is Heidegger and Nietzsche on steroids. It is a subjective truth that sees it its own subjective truth as superior to all others. Very similar it Nazism and Marxism and as materialistic.

@JonathanPo50825 @OdyseeTeam How does this inquiry create new styles, do you see it as a painting challenge or a cultural/historical force? Design, expression, taste, originality?

@DavidOB87552057 @OdyseeTeam Painting has to be more than the decorative, otherwise it is a dead art. What is special about European painting it that it is also enquiry into reality, beliefs and ideas. Due to this it cannot be a still repetitive thing, therefore the idea of one true style is absurd.

@Paultalk44 Lovely Evening, be a shame if someone ruined it... @Dob:7/CapturingTimewithMetaphysics:1?r=2qKNfrpmiu6nV3mdENaVrnu5D7kEUgPn" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener">odysee.com/@Dob:7/Capturi…

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 The dress is one colour, her hair is one colour, everything is just the colour it is. The colour elements don't move independently throughout the page. It's the contrast between the colour elements and the forms that make a painting exciting

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44 What you do not understand is that academic painting was also decorative, in fact they made fetish out of it. This is a decorative painting but it is also beautifully observed,

Your paintings have too much brown @Paultalk44

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 You know that's actually true, but only if people can't do it well enough, Or, as with everyone else, do something far easier and then claim it the same level cause style or taste It's just cowardice of not being will to do the thing to the fullest extent

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44 Decorative painting leads to blandness and eventually amateurism, which is what happened in 20 th century

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 Yes yes, everything that's not dry academicism is wacky...

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44 You have to stay off the drugs

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 The decorative is not about enhancing the figures, it's about the design of the page. One stays intact because of the strength of the colour elements, Delaroche fades to a few smudges because it's all about a realistic effect, an illustration

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44 You are not reading my comments. Nonsense the Delaroche is a decorative as any other painting, for example look at the red hat and how he composes the figures and the pictorial elements.

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 But it's not all about the centre, each colour area is a composition element for the structure of the page too, the abstract design. Academic painting like Delaroche isn't hitting these heights as it only focuses on the realism/optical/subtle subject

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44 Yes it spirals to the centre of the painting, exactly my point, a composition leads the eye to the main focus of the painting. You should also notice how artist uses optical greys and it gives a sense of air around the figures.

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 It is the competing colour areas of the dark/white, warm/cold that adds tensions and pushes through the figures that makes 'the eye move around'

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44 this painting has a central focus, perfect example of what i saying, your eye moves around, but it has centrality. Painting, especially a figurative painting, can not have each part painted the same, or too many competing elements.

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 Yeah, these only really work up close, doesn't have the wall power as something with stronger colour elements

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44

@JonathanPo50825 @Paultalk44 Indeed, but the scene is so varied that a subtle approach looks noisy. The broad colour areas have to work independently from the subject. Viewed from 50 feet away or on a postcard it should still be interesting as abstract elements

@DavidOB87552057 @Paultalk44 In a history painting they are depicting a seen, but still it will have different area of focus, and usually a dramatic central point.