Elisha Mackal

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Regulations are placed primarily when things are out of control. It has nothing to do with correctness. Commandments on the other hand, has everything to do with correctness. Regulations are not commandments. Tip: It’s a commandment when the Bible says, You shall not or You must.

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek What exactly do you think regulations do? Penalties for doing it this way, no penalties for doing it the other way. Here's who you can do it to, here's who you cannot do it to. I honestly don't understand why this is a hill you want to die on. The Bible very clearly does this

The disciples of Jesus who were in a position to know whether Jesus had risen from the dead or not, died excruciating deaths when they could have saved themselves by simply saying, "Look, it never happened."

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Pardon me, evidence is not the right word. I meant reasoning.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek You didn’t give me any evidence for why you came to a conclusion that the Bible shows the correctness of how to do slavery. No evidence. Don’t revert to slander when you can’t be intellectually honest. As I said, this is not about slavery for you, it’s something else

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Quote me. I’m pretty clear there of what I said.

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek You need to go back and read what you wrote. You said Christians didn't think slavery was ok for 1800 years. If you aren't going to be honest here I'm not going to continue. You can't make things up here

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek How are you coming to a conclusion about the correctness of how to do slavery? Does the Bible say this is the correct way to do and this is the wrong way to do it? You see what you did there? You are adding that information. I am not sure why but this is not about slavery for you

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek You have to be intentionally ignoring the point here. I'm not saying it does say it's ideal, and I'm not saying it doesn't say it's ideal. Why? Because the Bible doesn't say either of those things. It simply tells the Israelites how to do slavery correctly.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Yes, I would not say condoned because we established that we understand the definition of acceptance differently. Permitted is a more precise word

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek I never said the Bible said slavery was ideal. I said the Bible condoned slavery. Which it does by definition. As much as you obviously hate that, it doesn't make it any less true.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek I didn’t say Christians were the only ones part of the abolishment movement. I said Christians were the ones who started it! Until then, nobody really came to the conclusion that slavery needs to be abolished. Others who weren’t Christians definitely joined the movement

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek That simply shows an ignorance of history Elisha.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek My point is exactly that. It does not say we should have dominion over each other. It only says we are created to have dominion over the earth. Do you know how to identify and understand ideals?

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek And where does it say "not over each other"? It does not. You're saying it does but it doesn't. That's my point. What it very specifically DOES say, is that they CAN have dominion over each other. You keep ignoring that, and claiming it says something it doesn't actually say

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek “May” shows permission. It does not show it to be ideal. Ideals are “shoulds”

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek "Therefore, it wasn’t perfectly fine as you say" The Bible disagrees with you on that. It was perfectly fine

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek It’s not dishonest to infer how to interpret biblical law when Jesus shows how to. Christians didn’t think for 1800 years, okay… nor did anyone else until Christians started to think this way. The earliest abolitionists in UK were Christians. No other worldview figured it out

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek I see your point, it's just dishonest. It isn't what the Bible says, and yet you're continuing to insist that it's what it meant. Well Christians for nearly 1800 years didn't think so. Not until the Enlightenment. Then Christians went back to try and find a way to say slavery bad

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek The first sentence is my exact point. That is the original ideal. Therefore, it wasn’t perfectly fine as you say. This is why I brought up Jesus because He shows through the divorce law how God allows something due to people’s hearts. Hopefully, you see my point

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Everybody was made in the image of God in the OT too. But it was still perfectly fine and legal to own non-Israelites as lifelong, generational chattel slaves. Literally says that. What it does NOT literally say, is that this is not ideal, wrong, or a sin.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Maybe you missed my reply so I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. The original ideal is that all human beings are made in the image of God and to have dominion over the Earth not over each other

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek It isn't dishonest though. You keep saying that and it simply isn't true. As much as you want it to be. The fact is nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned or said to be wrong. Nowhere does it say the original ideal is no slavery. THIS is dishonest.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek You are totally missing my point. It’s okay

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek We're told the correct way to do slavery, the correct people to do it to, but never that we shouldn't. You're trying to read it back into the Bible because you believe it's immoral and wrong.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Yes. No slavery IS the ideal because You and I and everybody else is made in the image of God AND we were created to have dominion over the Earth NOT over each other. That is the original ideal

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek I did mention how Jesus answered the divorce question. It wasn’t necessarily only answering about divorce. The point He makes is to refer to the original ideal. This is why I say it’s a dishonest interpretation of the biblical law. But it’s okay if you are adamant w/ your view.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek I think that would be dishonest in the light of the fact Jesus makes it clear that God allows because of hardened hearts. Secondly, though slavery is considered immoral today because we have progressed towards the original ideal does not mean it was in the ancient world.

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek We are not going to agree on condone. Accept does not mean approve. You may mean "approve" when you say it, but you're simply misusing the word. That isn't what it means. Yes the Bible condones slavery. You're trying to make that word mean something it does not.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Good. I agreed to your point. But you cannot say condone. Perhaps if you get that, that might be a progress as well. Let’s be honest in our discussion, hopefully, that’s what we want to aim for

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek You said it was all temporary indentured servitude. Until I pointed out that it was also lifelong, generational chattel slavery. So yes, progress.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek I never argued against allowance. But for one to say condone, it needs to be both allow and approve. Therefore, you can’t say condone in this context. That would be simply dishonest understanding of the Bible. Especially when you take into account how Jesus makes it clear

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Well progress of a sort I suppose.

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Even to say condone, you need to make a moral judgment. And as I said, I’ll grant you the allow part of condoning and not the approval/acceptance part of it.

@EJMackal @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek I'm not discussing or sharing any opinion on the morality of it. Just the simple fact that it's condoned in the Bible. That's all. Simple

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Also, you didn’t answer one of my earlier questions. Do you see it as immoral and if so, what standard of morality do you appeal to?

@NBrasing @genuine_ersatz @DrFrankTurek Allow yes, I am not sure if God accepts it. By acceptance, I mean something that He approves or He is for it. There’s debate about the verse that says God hates divorce, btw. However, Jesus is clear about what God’s heart is. God does make all human beings in His image.