Herbert Holmes 🇺🇲

@Drodgoat1091 @LeShendyJames @MythNix An accusation that was not made under oath isn't even admissible in court. Even a statement under oath via an affidavit requires supplemental evidence.

@Epi_stemic @LeShendyJames @MythNix If you're saying that a dude on multiple podcasts stating on the record that he and Bron use the same dealer isn't proof then what would you call it ??

MJ may have had elite hang time but it still doesn't change the fact they lied about his fake 48" vertical. LeBron gets his head ABOVE THE RIM. Something MJ and that fake 48" vertical could NEVER ACCOMPLISH. The fact they have to lie about this shit just shows how insecure they are. MJ NEVER HAD A 48" VERTICAL. But keep lying, it's what JorGroupies do best.

@MythNix @Drodgoat1091 @LeShendyJames Yeah, agreed. Best to just leave it as a conspiracy theory.

@Epi_stemic @Drodgoat1091 @LeShendyJames Why would Lebron waste his time on this bullshit? It’s had no impact on his endorsements, and no teammate, trainer, league official, etc has said anything about it, and he’s pissed off tons of them along the way.

@Drodgoat1091 @LeShendyJames @MythNix It's not proof. In defamation lawsuits you have to prove malice and damages. Malice is very difficult to prove. Even if Sonnen had some texts that prove malice on his phone, what would the damages even be? Emotional distress? Brons reputation hasn't been damaged by the claims.

@LeShendyJames @Epi_stemic @MythNix Maybe you're just a hypocrite since you're crashing out on facts and proof I've provided.. Relax dude 😉

@LeShendyJames @NetsNum1Hater That study is enough to change my mind.

Let me ask you a very simple question. You're training the most famous athlete in the world. You claim his vertical was 38" and you got him to 48" Yet there is literally no evidence of him having a 48" vertical EVER. Why would you not document all of this with photos and videos? Oh yeah, it was all bullshit to sell a training program. Here's some more info that most MJ fans don't know. While at UNC MJ had his vertical measured. The only problem is that they have incorrect data for his standing reach. The data says his standing reach is below 8" MJ is 6'6" with a wingspan of 6'11" There is no possible way his standing reach is under 8 feet. But also in that study they measured the vertical displacement of his pelvis at 38" which is what his vertical would be. There's no way your pelvis goes up 38" but your vertical is 48" It's literally impossible It's like saying your vertical is 40" but your head went up 50" when you jumped. The data for the standing reach is 100% incorrect. I'm 6'0" with a wingspan of 6'0" and can reach higher than it says MJ reached in this study. The vertical hip displacement is at 38" which is what Grover said his vertical leap was when he started training him. That's why the 38" makes sense. People also try stating that MJs vertical was measured at the Olympics but this is just another MJ fairy tale.

It's not just the low angle that has to be accounted for, it's also proximity to the camera. The closer two objects get to each other in distance from the camera the less the angle makes an impact. In the photo posted MJ is right next to the rim. If in the photo of the youtuber his head was closer to the rim his actual height relative to the rim would be more accurate.

@LeShendyJames @NetsNum1Hater If Grover is lying then why believe the 38" part of the claim?

Tim Grover claimed when he started working with MJ he had a 38" vertical and got him to 48" There's no professional athlete of MJs caliber that raises their vertical 10" in the prime of their career It's so unrealistic if you believe it you're dumber than I thought. So if Grover measured it at 38" maybe just maybe he added a few inches and if that's the case it makes perfect sense why we don't have any clear photos with his head above the rim. Because it never happened

They didn't have all the same camera angles that they do today, not to mention that his head may never have cleared the rim by much. I think his head is above the rim in that picture and I'm not as skeptical as you are about Jordan's vertical. He needs a 42" to get his head at the rim. Are you saying he doesn't have at least a 42" vertical? In the video that photo is from he ducks his head as if he is avoiding the rim. It seems like his head was above the rim or right at it. So the picture I'm showing you seems like it's from a dunk where his head was above the rim to me. You just disagree.

@Epi_stemic @NetsNum1Hater Why cant you just provide a clear photo with MJs head love the rim? Oh yeah cause it never happened.

@NetsNum1Hater @LeShendyJames Sure, but the proximity creates the illusion. Closer objects appear larger. If I was more skeptical about MJs vertical then I might question it.

@Epi_stemic @LeShendyJames I mean I’m with you on that one. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to believe MJ could get 42-43. Only point im arguing is zero low angle pics can prove he was head at rim given the illusion it gives off

@LeShendyJames @NetsNum1Hater At 6' 6" you need a 42" inch vertical for your head to be at the rim, do you think it's unreasonable to believe that Michael Jordan has a 43" vertical?

@Epi_stemic @NetsNum1Hater You guys really can't stop sucking off MJ huh? Can't provide a single clear photo yet you swear he's above the rim in all of them. Just another pussy MJ dicksucker unable to admit they lied about his 48" vertical

@NetsNum1Hater @LeShendyJames I feel like MJ is closer to the rim since the ball seems to be above the inside of the rim, but I think we can just agree to disagree. I'm not as skeptical as you are about Michael potentially having a 42 inch vertical, which is all he would need for his head to be at the rim.

@Epi_stemic @LeShendyJames Found a few more examples. Even when he’s closer to the basket like MJ, the angle is still insanely inflating being as low to the ground as it is. Low angle here looks like his head is is 2” below the rim. Side angles show his head is mid net/ bottom of backboard.

@NetsNum1Hater @LeShendyJames He is much closer. His arms have the ball over the rim. Angles can make a world of difference, particularly when one object is much closer to the camera than another, but when the objects are nearly equally as distant from the camera, not so much in this context.

@Epi_stemic @LeShendyJames MJ may be slightly closer to the rim but I think the two are closer than it seems. All I’m trying to show really is that angles can make a world of difference in a majority of cases

@LeShendyJames @NetsNum1Hater I don't disagree. I think it is an amazing achievement. I just think it will be embellished to some degree with respect to his diminished ability at this stage of his career.

@Epi_stemic @NetsNum1Hater it IS legendary. now if they say his son was just as good as he was thats BS but it is legendary to play a pro sport with your son

@LeShendyJames Point taken, however, given Lebron's vertical leap it's actually very possible his head was above the rim in this photo. I agree with your broader point about angles.

so i guess lebron got half his head over the rim right? do you even know how angles work? its exactly why i asked for a CLEAR photo, but retards are always gonna be retards. youre no exception

@LeShendyJames @NetsNum1Hater Ok, fair enough. This photo shows his head clearly at the rim.

@Epi_stemic @NetsNum1Hater no it doesnt lol according to you this guy is taller than a house thanks for proving you have no idea how angles work

It's because of how toxic the GOAT debate has become. People re-write history, minimize accomplishments, minimize players, and invent myths over this debate. I also think this happens with many other things in history. I'm sure when LeBron finally hangs it up there will be myths about him as well. People will definitely talk about how he played with his son. It will sound legendary in hindsight.

But the difference is we have all the proof when we make claims about LeBron. Shit, the NBA YouTube channel has a video claiming MJ had 10 steals in 1 game and they aren't even able to show you all 10. In fact there isn't a single mention in the video of 10 steals. They showed blocks and steals from other players to try and convince you that you saw 10 steals from MJ. And how about this.... The NBA obviously has that video or else they wouldn't have been able to grab all those highlights Why is that game not available in full game mode on YouTube????? It's because anyone could watch it and see that MJ didn't have 10 steals. They protect this guy like he's their newborn baby. It's hilarious how protected he is.

@LeShendyJames @NetsNum1Hater This photo seems to show MJ's head above the rim. Maybe the 48" vertical is a myth but I give MJ the benefit of the doubt since he was able to dunk from the foul line and was a tremendous athlete.

Yet there's not a single photo to prove it Billions of photos of MJ but they can't find one with his head clearly over the rim. Seems a little fishy. Also Tim Grover stated MJ had a 38" vertical and he got him up to 48" Why is there not a single photo or video of him showing MJ hit 48" in a vertical leap drill? Most famous sports star of the era and he didn't document anything. Yeah that sounds legit and nothing like him trying to sell his training program. That's like me claiming I worked with a power lifter and he went from benching 800 to 900 pounds yet there's not a shred of evidence showing he can bench 900 pounds. MJ fans just believe anything you tell them when it makes MJ look good.

@NetsNum1Hater @LeShendyJames It's just made up. I think people romanticize his career. People will probably do the same with LeBron when he retires.

@Epi_stemic @LeShendyJames That we can agree on. I do think MJ could get his head to the rim and maybe slightly over but I just don’t think a lot of people realize just how absurd a true 48” vert would look on a 6’6 guy. Rim would look like it’s 9ft lol

@NetsNum1Hater @LeShendyJames Sure, maybe MJ doesn't have a 48" vertical, but he seems to have a vertical high enough to get his head above the rim. Someone who is 6' 7" with a 42" vertical would also be able to do this since the rim is 10'.

@Epi_stemic @LeShendyJames My friend is 6’7 and can windmill from the foul line. He jumps 42-43 at the absolute max

@NetsNum1Hater @LeShendyJames I think when you can dunk from the foul line you should get the benefit of the doubt.

@Epi_stemic @LeShendyJames I have videos of myself dunking and there’s very much an angle. A low camera angle can make it look like your head is by the rim when in reality it can be a good bit under

@VampiDelTiempo @Shane00 I think he was just referring to the "Ray Allen saved LeBron" narrative and adding context, but you're right about the numbers.

@Shane00 Have you noticed that LeBron fans always bring up some stat or achievement while hiding another? They never give the full context; for example, he was actually mediocre during those Finals in terms of turnovers and field goal percentage.

The only reason why they say "Ray Allen saved LeBron" is to minimize one the greatest finals performances of all time Down 10 in the 4th, down 3-2. Win or go home. LeBron scores 18, and assists on 10 more pts in the 4th/OT