Hirdijaz Hrabno

@Aeuropa @readmyramblings @Tom_Rowsell Frankish warlords , settlers and farmers introduced a significant layer of vocabulary into French, the Gaulish influence in comparaison was much more limited. Not to forget that descendant dialects of Frankish are still spoken in parts of France today.

@HHrabno @readmyramblings @Tom_Rowsell It is strange why people on this website downplay the Germanic component of French history I see it a lot from many types, people get sensitive & think it's an 'attack' on the Gauls etc which is just a bizarre mentality. Franks also influenced how French sounds, Île de France.

•New study by De Angelis et al sampled 78 skeletons from a Norman cemetery near Godalming used between 9th-13th century. •They compared them to hundreds of other samples, drawing on previous work such as Gretzinger et al 2022 •The samples from Priory Orchard in Godalming (POG) are actually LESS French than modern English are. •The Norman conquest did not result in an increase in French ancestry but it does seem to have facilitated later contact with medieval France when the present French ancestry likely arrived. •These Norman era skeletons from Surrey were very Nordic, with mainly Swedish and Danish affinities, not French. •There are no studies of Norman DNA in France so the authors are flying blind in that regard, with no clear source population to compare them to. •This is just one cemetery so not conclusive for all England in regards to Norman influence but is certainly the best window into Norman genetics we have so far. •QpAdm stats with dodgy models showed less convincing results as an alternative to f3 and pca models.

@readmyramblings @Aeuropa @Tom_Rowsell What I find hilarious is that many Anglos deny or downplay the Germanic component in French history, yet are so quick to jump to the conclusion that the Normans were overwhelmingly Scandinavian.. as if it was some kind of gotcha: ‘see nothing French about 1066'

@Aeuropa @HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell Cool, now do you have a way to explain how late era norman samples would be 90% germanic?

@readmyramblings @Aeuropa @Tom_Rowsell Frankish genetic impact was regional rather than nationwide, and greater than that of the Vikings both genetically and culturally

@Aeuropa @HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell You are doing ad hominem. Present FACTS please. Here are mine: Fact 1: Franks did not leave substantial genetic impact on Gallic population Fact 2: Scandinavians come into France, establish Dutchy of Normandy, and intermarry with the local French population.

@readmyramblings @Aeuropa @Tom_Rowsell Prior to the Viking settlers, there was already a minor Saxon presence on the coasts and a substantial Frankish one in other areas, but it was by no means significant enough to maintain a dominant Germanic gene pool over centuries.

@Aeuropa @HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell This notion that france is a germanic land needs to stop. the genetics are very clear, the french are a celtic gaullic people. and it is hard to imagine late era normans with almost exclusively germanic ancestry as basically nobody in either england or france would have that

@readmyramblings @Aeuropa @Tom_Rowsell Yes, it’s most likely a specific subgroup, not representative of either the Norman population or the invading force, which also included other contingents from northern France

@Aeuropa @HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell in any event the known pattern of norman settlement and intermarriage with french women is widespread and commonplace enough that it would affect their genetics. this graveyard supposedly showing 100% danish "normans" in the 12th century makes no sense

@Aeuropa @readmyramblings @Tom_Rowsell No, there was no invasion of Normandy by France, only feudal disputes between the king of France and his ducal vassal

@readmyramblings @Tom_Rowsell Norman leaders during the time had to maintain their link to Scandinavia in their power struggle against France. King Harald Bluetooth came to the rescue of Richard Sans-Peur (The Fearless) with a Fleet when the French invaded Normandy to try and take the territory from them.

@readmyramblings @Tom_Rowsell Yes, the idea that Normans were largely Nordic is greatly overstated, and it overlooks the older Gallic majority of Normandy. Modern autosomal samples show between roughly 10–25% Scandinavian admixture at best in former settlement zones. Even William himself was mixed.

@Tom_Rowsell The Normans were probably less Germanic than the Anglo-Saxons. They interbred with the French from the beginning.

@Gibertdidier @LebretonPi43316 quelle farceur ce Didier

@LebretonPi43316 Un excellent président jalousé par les esprits simples influençables. Il sera regretté comparé au suivant ou à la suivante….j’en ri d’avance.

Jean Reno "La France se meurt à petit feu. Chirac, Sarkozy, Hollande.. tous ont leur] part de responsabilité. Mais Macron ? Une catastrophe absolue. Incompétence, arrogance, mépris. Le pire président de la Ve République."

@bielpmw @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 It depends. Many just look like northern French people. Some look like they’ve just stepped off a Viking ship. ,-)

@HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 Na sua opinião, os normandos têm aparência diferente dos franceses ?

@bielpmw @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 yes

@HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 You're french?

@bielpmw @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonisat… In French only, but a solid, serious explanation for anyone who wants to understand the topic properly.

@HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 Mas havia grandes assentamentos de vikings onde eles eram maioria ?

@bielpmw @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 Minor for Normandy as a whole, and substantial at the local level. A friend from the coastal area has around 21% scandinavian ancestry. Normandy had already a large Gallo Frankish population before the arrival of Norse settlers

@HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 Você diria que a Normandia atual tem influência escandinava substancial?

@Xgamer40000 @Tom_Rowsell @ColeColeumuq Yes the Norman Conquest wasn’t just “Norman” , it was a coalition from across northern France, led by the Duke of Normandy. BTW I'm pagan, French with Frankish roots. i respect the Anglo Saxons and i have no admiration for Charlemagne's massacres of the Saxons

@HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell @ColeColeumuq They also came with tons of allies from mainland France. Toms just a sperg that worships sticks and thinks Anglo saxons weren't pathetic (they were).

@Tom_Rowsell @ColeColeumuq Normandy was one of the 5 duchies vassal of the French king, all part of the French feudal system. In the Bayeux tapestry, Normans are branded as 'Franci'

@ColeColeumuq France did nothing to England. The Normans were not french and they wanted England because it was an extremely wealthy and productive civilisation.

@Iovincorix @JenniferALeoni @Tom_Rowsell you have one right above in this thread .. This has been genetically validated since a long time already. Do your research

@HHrabno @JenniferALeoni @Tom_Rowsell Show me a PCA and genetic distances that proves any French subgroups (excluding west Bretons and some Normans) are closer to the English than to other French groups.

@Iovincorix @JenniferALeoni @Tom_Rowsell Nope, also Nord Pas de Calais, Ile de France, Champagne, Lorraine.. steppe admixture is definitely in the north western cluster compared to Basques, Occitans, Ligurians, corsicans..

@HHrabno @JenniferALeoni @Tom_Rowsell Not true, only west Bretons and some Normands are.

@JenniferALeoni @Tom_Rowsell Northern French populations, in general, are genetically closer to the English than to southern French populations

@HHrabno @Tom_Rowsell The modern Norman profile is very similar to the modern English profile in some models too.

@Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 The medieval poet Benoît de Sainte-Maure, at the end of the 12th century, stated in his Chronicle of the Dukes of Normandy, that "Danish” was still spoken on parts of the coasts.

@Tom_Rowsell @Xgamer40000 Normandy was genetically uneven, with higher “Scandinavian” clusters and large Gallic areas. A Norse dialect also continued to be spoken in some localities until the later Middle Ages alongside Norman French. Ironically, Norman French was not heavily influenced by Norse.

@Tom_Rowsell Modern Normans from the Cotentin, one of the most dense viking settlement area in Normandy

My own interpretation is that the Normans were largely Nordic people but because they spoke French their victory reorientated British politics towards the south. Therefore the post Norman period resulted in much greater contact with France and a resulting genetic influence from France on England in the High Middle Ages.