Iggy Patel

For people who think NHS CHC is better, think again. There is constant issues within thier direct payment offer standard.co.uk/news/health/nh…

Introducing the new Lead Ministers for Disability 📢 Minister for Social Security and Disability, @stephenctimms, and ministers across Government will ensure the voices of disabled people are at the heart of everything we do. #IDPWD

More councils demanding all of disabled people’s benefits!!! @Haloabletec @beingthebossNo1 @bustogether @InclusionLondon @ScrapCareCharg1

@BuDs_UK Mention words to the disabled community and see the effect. The discussions on this is me and you. If we were talking about disabled people or people with disabilites. This thread would jump lots of people would get involved. Ie words are important.

@BuDs_UK Assited suicidefor the terminaly I I'll. let's call it what it is. How can words be meaningless it's plain and simple. The courts have a rule for that they can use a dictionary and then will use the reasoanble test- ie what does the man on the Clapham omni bus think it means.

A difficult subject I know. But I just wanted to check how many people have read the Assisted Dying Bill? Would a simplified version of what the bill is actually saying help give more clarity about the subject?

@BuDs_UK Ie the ordinary person on the street. I'm not going to make a judgement either way. It's for indvidual people to decide. I'm not trying to push an agenda just inform.

@BuDs_UK I can't and won't speak for the incompetence of others. I don't know them. All I can see is what is in front of me and try to give an unbiased view for people to decide. Hopefully parlimanet will work through any issues as the bill progresses.

@Haloabletec That isn't the point. A Code of Practice cannot change the meaning or wording of the primary legislation under which it is issued. The Bill's incompetent drafting can't be corrected unless Parliament corrects it.

@BuDs_UK Agree to disagree on this one, as courts will look at guidance espesssialy if it's statutory. They have various rules to apply when deciding- including looking at Hansard ( what was parliament intending) or even a dictionary defintion. Judges interpret law all the time.

@BuDs_UK Again first line of the bill if the person chooses to.. not if the family chooses or the doctor. This is about choice.

@Haloabletec We don't think that disabled people should be expected to kill themselves so that their family isn't inconvenienced. We place a much higher value on the lives of disabled people than that.

@BuDs_UK As I've said I have no personal vote to swing here. I just beleive people should be given the bill in a simplified way, for them to make thier own minds up. It's about informing the public of facts without opinion. Just lay it plain what it says.

@Haloabletec If you take the extreme nihilistic view that suicide is only a lifestyle choice, then this Assisted Suicide Bill makes perfect sense. For everyone else, the Bill is obviously flawed and unworkable.

@BuDs_UK I'm not saying it's only a lifestyle choice, it's an important subject. that's not what the law says it's starts with the title assisted dying for the terminaly ill. Then the first lines are if a person chooses to. Then there are are various steps to go through to check.

@BuDs_UK A Statutory code of practise is as good as law, as in the care act. And can't be substantialy shifted against - R v Islington.

@Haloabletec It's perfectly clear in the Bill that the first doctor chooses the second doctor. A Code of Practice can't change the meaning of the Act.

@BuDs_UK It's not for us to assume, it's for the person to make choice. One of these could be not to put oneself or family through the pain and hurt.

@Haloabletec We don't think it's reasonable to assume that dying people will make perfect balanced decisions. It's obvious that people will 'choose' to die for many reasons, including saving their family money and grief. The supporters of the Bill aren't even arguing otherwise now.

@BuDs_UK It's about choice, sec 1 clearly where a person chooses to, not where other people choose. Capacity is defined under mental helath act ( in the bill) ie I bad decisiom is not a wrong decision. People have the choice. Isn't this waht we strive for with disability rights? Choice.

@BuDs_UK As always thank you for the debate, we need more of this sort of thing after all that's all I'm trying to achievea debate by people. Not necessarily - substantial or long term is 12 months in Equality Act. However I agree most people are likely.

@BuDs_UK Again it's saying that disability imtoself or mental helath triggers the choice.

@BuDs_UK The choosing of doctors is not clear, maybe the code of practise will clear up some of the detail. If they removed jidical overnight, it would necessarily a complelty different piece of legislation. However we cna only go buy what it says at the moment.

@Haloabletec Sadly, this isn't accurate. The first doctor chooses the second doctor, and there's nothing to prevent the second doctor being a colleague or co-worker. And the judicial oversight in the Bill is so unworkable that the Bill's own supporters are now proposing to remove them.

@BuDs_UK Agreed agin it's the terminal bit thats important. The choice is still yours. But I'm hearing that people think disabled people will be forced, when that not waht it says. Just want to make it clear not for it ( my religious reasons would forbid me).

@Haloabletec Sadly, that's not accurate. The Bill says that being a disabled person or having a mental disorder cannot alone make you eligible for assisted suicide, but a disabled or mentally-ill person who the assessing doctors thought had a terminal diagnosis would be eligible.

@BuDs_UK Also, the safeguards that it can't be just OK by a doctor but 2 doctors one independent and has to be approved by a high court judge. I'm not personally either way. Just think people need to be informed of all the facts as it says.

@BuDs_UK Noted. My concern is very few people are actualy unaware of what the bill says. Ie it's called assisted dying for the terminaly I'll. Not just assisted dying. It has many safeguards and penalties. Specificaly says can't be used for disability and mental health issues. 1/2