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Darles Chickens
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Darles Chickens
@HunterLares
Emancipation from the bondage of the soil is no freedom for the tree || Vocals in @edelwood_creek (he/him)
Liberty St. Katılım Ocak 2012
973 Takip Edilen506 Takipçiler
@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit Oh so we're acknowledging the red button is the murder button now? And that you want to press it anyway?
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit if this somehow happened for real it would probably be a bad idea to go after people like that because they might see red as a chance to get rid of you with clean hands. i’m not saying i want you dead. i’m saying it’s not super convincing given the game
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Two things:
1. The best* result is not "everyone lives" but rather "You do not die." I think a lot of people are being idealistic about this, saying it's selfish, etc, but you're already making that exact tradeoff every day. You make choices that maximize your chance of continuing to not just remain alive but also very comfortable, even at the expense of bettering other people's shot of continuing to be alive (you could live in a shoebox and donate all your money to buy malaria nets, for instance).
2. Since childhood I've tried many strategies to explain logic puzzles to members of my family, and it rarely works out. You probably have family members like this as well.
Anyway, I'm not making a positive argument about the thought experiment. But I think it's very silly to pretend (1) isn't true. You're already doing this! You do it all the time!
* Best in the sense that A contains B. All people living is a very good outcome! But it's extremely important that you personally continue living, strategically. It's basically the most important thing. "No it's not you're just selfish" you're a liar and your lifestyle betrays you! Go volunteer at a soup kitchen!
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@Yukami_neesan @the_crowtaro @austrosillyism Oh of course, because societal collapse is great for life expectancy
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I would press red not out of any moralistic reason, but because there is no scenario where pressing red would kill me and there would be one where pressing blue would, and I simply don’t want my life to be beholden to the value judgement of others
Tim Urban@waitbutwhy
Everyone in the world has to take a private vote by pressing a red or blue button. If more than 50% of people press the blue button, everyone survives. If less than 50% of people press the blue button, only people who pressed the red button survive. Which button would you press?
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Darles Chickens retweetledi
Egoist arguments for red are both false and abnegating.
My egoism extends to my moral pride: I would rather die than become a murderer.
Pressing red is a chronic lack of self-respect.
taoki@justalexoki
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Darles Chickens retweetledi
"If everyone would just..."
The fact that the red button pickers are even making their case online to try build consensus (and convince their moms to pick red) demonstrates total blue victory.
True red pickers wouldn't care.
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit I am perfectly aware. The only consequence of this argument is you making it very publicly obvious how little you value human life outside your own
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit it wouldn’t cause too many problems for civilization
you really don’t have to go after me. no one is putting the game on. no lives are at stake. i’m not even arguing anyone should do anything
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@Piccini @Charlie694204 @RumHtwn @keysmashbandit It wouldn't be sacrificing. It's very clearly risking your life to save billions, and the risk increases that you'll fail with every asshole who thinks they're metagaming the genocide button by picking genocide
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@Charlie694204 @HunterLares @RumHtwn @keysmashbandit I think the problem is that they believe they are choosing between their life vs. 4 billion lives, even though that is not the choice being made at all. If it were, than I would gladly sacrifice myself to save 4 billion people
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit Fascinated by the idea you think COVID again wouldn't be "pretty bad"
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit depends pretty heavily on how many. just shy of the threshold would be pretty bad. 1% would be covid again
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit The facts in front of you are that way more than a "smattering" of people are siding blue. All those people dead would cause problems beyond the obvious horror of mass death
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit even if we take it as iron truth that really isn’t much at all. not even a meaningful fraction of 1%
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit It's 98000x the info of your individual opinion
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit no one’s life is on the line, we’re basically all from similar cultures, and the chosen colors trigger tribal associations. this isn’t as much info as you might think
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit If the only thing the entity is doing is presenting us this vote our only problem is the cowards voting for mass death to save their own skins
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit anyway an implication of this in reality is some entity is powerful enough to force humanity into it so we probably have bigger problems
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit Well have you been online today? That's not the case, it is a much closer call than that
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit well not if blue is just a smattering of voters
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@Piccini @Charlie694204 @RumHtwn @keysmashbandit There are two possible outcomes of the vote. Either nobody dies or up to half the population dies. The way a vote works is every vote increases the likelihood of that side's outcome. You can dance around it all you want you are voting for mass death
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@HunterLares @Charlie694204 @RumHtwn @keysmashbandit No, it doesn't. The expected number of lives saved by pushing red is ~0.5. The expected number of lives saved by pushing blue is ~0. Pressing red saves more lives
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit I think you'll find civilization on the whole needs blue to win. Have you thought for five seconds about the consequences of up to half the population dying instantly? Infrastructure would collapse if red wins
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit blues have to sell 50%+1 total. don’t worry about me!
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@Piccini @Charlie694204 @RumHtwn @keysmashbandit If you vote red it increases the likelihood of the people dying outcome. It's very simple. There's only one way to decrease the chance of up to half the population dying. If you would rather increase the chance of up to half the population dying to save your own skin, say that
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@HunterLares @Charlie694204 @RumHtwn @keysmashbandit No. If you vote blue and blue loses, people die. If you vote red and blue wins, people don't die.
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit If I have to "sell you" on not voting for people to die en masse, you have much bigger issues than this hypothetical
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit well that’s the outcome you want. but i recommend better sales techniques
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit Exactly. So you'd better do everything in your power to increase the likelihood blue wins, which you can only do by voting blue, or else up to half the population will die. And the red outcome would be the fault of the people who voted for the red outcome
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit yeah that’s the rules. still impossible to know what blue will do
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit You increase the odds of blue by voting for it and decrease the odds of blue by voting red. It's very simple. Every red vote increases the likelihood of people dying, because one thing we can be certain of is that humanity doesn't vote unanimously on anything
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit actually it’s impossible to know what the odds of blue are. that’s kinda the point
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit And that is more likely if you vote blue
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit the game intentionally hides the necessary information, all you can do is hope your choice leads to no deaths
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@bloodstreamrunz @gowronseyes @chuvakk The only thing you're achieving arguing this point is proving how little you value human life
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@gowronseyes @HunterLares @chuvakk sorry your children are retarded but realistically you're just dying with them and achieving literally nothing
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there is absolutely no chance that blue would get more than 15% in a real scenario, the odds of it winning 50%+1 of the vote are ridiculously minuscule. voting blue isn't even a gamble, it's plain suicide, blue is a death cult of suicidal idiots
Sam || Crafting Vegeto@CraftingVegeto
Okay, so after thinking about this red blue button dilemma for hours, here is where I landed lol At first glance, the correct pragmatic answer is obviously red. You survive no matter what. That part is still 100 percent true. Red is the logical self preservation move. You do not die no matter what the others do. But once you think deeper, you realize that blue actually has a strong moral and collective argument. Blue only needs "just" over 50 percent to save literally everyone, while red basically needs 100 percent for no one to die. So blue is the gamble that gives humanity the best shot at universal survival with the lowest bar. At the same time, tons of people are emotional as hell, not logical or pragmatic, and sadly a lot are straight up virtue signaling kings. That means there is a real chance we end up in that dangerous 40 to 49 percent blue zone where billions die and society collapses anyway. Even the survivors probably would not survive long after that. Good job everyone. So yeah, red is the logical self preservation move, and blue is the more morally correct gamble to try and save everyone. Both sides have a solid point. Having that said... Everyone on Twitter furiously shitting on the other side is an idiot. Blues calling reds selfish monsters are idiots. Reds who cannot even see the collective blue argument are idiots too. But here is the most important part imho. All of this is bullshit. This is just a Twitter thought experiment where everything is easy and fake. If this was real life, an actual button in front of you, and pressing the wrong one means you actually die, everything changes. Heart rate at 180, adrenaline spiking, shitting your pants. I firmly believe there is near 0 percent chance blue gets over 50 percent in a real scenario, which I am not saying is a good thing. All the virtue signaling idiots on the internet would secretly press red in a heartbeat. Sure, some actual idealists who care about the collective more than pure survival would still press blue, and sadly they would die. In a real terrifying dystopian situation like that, red is the only solution, and it sucks.
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@voidsbestie @keysmashbandit That's the exact choice the game presents
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@HunterLares @keysmashbandit that’s not a choice the game presents. would save a lot of arguing if it did
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