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Pronomian resources (some are accessible some aren't. More to come):
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Logos Nomos
172 posts
Logos Nomos
@LogosN11514
Pronomian Trinitarian Christian. Enjoyer of good scholarship.
Katılım Mart 2026
14 Takip Edilen5 Takipçiler
@Cheersup2God Have you read Brant Pitre book on the last supper cause he makes a pretty strong case that the last supper was a Passover meal where they eat the lamb on Nisan 15 however lambs were sacrificed on Nisan 14 if so this would put the the Jesus and lambs deaths at two different times
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The Friday Jesus was crucified on was Nisan 14. For per astronomical data, in both 30 and 33 AD, Nisan 15 fell on Saturday, and Nisan 14 fell on Friday. The Gospel of John is explicit on this.
Jesus died when the Passover lambs were sacrificed to stave off the wrath of God!
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Jesus didn't need to literally be from David to be a Davidic heir see this paper for Jewish adoption:cambridge.org/core/journals/…
The Ex-Believer@TheExBeliever
Luke’s genealogy cannot be traced in a strict biological sense if the virgin birth is assumed, because it relies on Joseph’s lineage even though he is not the biological father of Jesus. Jesus cannot be of the tribe of Judah. Make it make sense. 🤷🏻🤦🏻
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@Alfredovich65 @ShaykhIshraq Have you read Caleb Friedmans Paper on Mark 9:2-8: Moses, Elijah, and Jesus’ Divine Glory (Mark 9.2–8) if so thoughts?cambridge.org/core/journals/…
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@ShaykhIshraq In Mark 9, during the transfiguration, it seems quite evident to me that Jesus is being revealed to be not just merely human (see Litwa; Collins). I think it's quite helpful to look at Mark in light of e.g. Phil 2.
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The claim that the synoptics have no "bearer of name" Christology can be defensible but it is by no means a consensus and can be and has been challenged. See, for example, Gathercole's arguments in favor of it. Also see McClellan (Appendix, 201 ff.).
Æ@AEnjoyer447201
@ShaykhIshraq There’s no evidence of this in the Synoptics, maybe in mark’s transfiguration, while mark is portraying Jesus as a theophany, i don’t think he is necessarily a name bearer.
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@DavidWilberBlog @TorahRight ταῦτα "these things" and πάντα "all" are used in Matthew 24:2 regarding the temple though so it doesn't seem to include the son of man return. Hence in Matthew 24:34 "all these things" simply refer to the temple destruction. You may also want to check out Sloans work on Mark 13.
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The “all these things” that must occur before “this generation” passes away include the unparalleled tribulation (Matt. 24:15–28) and the Son of Man’s return to gather his elect (24:29–31). I find it difficult to see how either of these events can be fully confined to the First Jewish–Roman War of AD 66–70. It seems to me that the phrase “this generation” in Matt 24:34 should be understood qualitatively (cf. Matt 12:39; 16:4; 17:17). It refers not just to people living within a particular period, but to a recurring kind of people characterized by persistent unbelief and opposition to God throughout history.
Consider, for example, the previous chapter, where the Pharisees of “this generation” (23:36) are identified with those who persecuted “all the prophets” throughout Israel’s history. Consequently, they are held accountable for the righteous blood shed from Abel onward. In this sense, the Pharisees belong to an enduring evil “generation” that remains until Christ’s return (23:37–39). So I see the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD as a partial fulfillment that foreshadows the ultimate fulfillment at the end of the age. This seems to make the best sense of the text since “all these things” were not exhaustively fulfilled in the first century.
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Scripture seems to teach that the world will get worse and more sinful before the Messiah returns. For instance, Yeshua says that “lawlessness will be increased” in the end days (Matthew 24:12). But that is not the whole story. Two verses later, he also says that the gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world before the end comes (Matthew 24:14). So, while lawlessness increases, the gospel also increases. As the darkness intensifies, so does the light.
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The irony of using Mt 7:21 is hilarious.
Jeremy Mathias@7Jeremy4Yah
These are a few scriptures where Yeshua denies he is God. Mk 10:18 Mt 7:21 Joh 7:16 Mt 24:36 Mk 13:32 Joh 8:42 Joh 5:30 Lu 22:42 Joh 6:38 Joh 4:34 Joh 12:49 Joh 14:24
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Romans 2:28-29 doesn't teach that we all become Jews for then Paul's later statement in Romans 3:29 would make no sense: Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too.
Prophecy Illustrated@ProIllustr3A777
Last Days Israel does not mean the country. It means all who believe in Jesus are considered part of Spiritual Israel, grafted into the covenant "olive tree." Romans 2:28-29 & Galatians 3:28-29, mean that through faith, Gentile believers become part of the true seed of Abraham.
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What on earth is going on with David Wood and the orthodox church rn?
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“The Torah and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since then, the Good News of the kingdom of God is being proclaimed, and everyone tries forcing his way in. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single serif of the Torah to fail.” -Yeshua
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The substance actually isn't there at all on Mark 8:38. See Tucker Ferda: Jesus and his promised Second Coming. I disagree with Ferda on a lot of his eschatology mainly Mark 9:1 and Mark 13:30 but here I think he is really strong.
Deen@Deenresponds
There’s just a group of christians and muslims (with inferiority complexes i might add) that disregard tabors scholarship because they see it as apologetic slop for muslims to use when in reality the substance is there. If they were to say that “Tabor has his view but i think X is more convincing” that would be different but in reality they’ve just become apologists on their own side with the sort of rhetoric and framing they use when discounting his scholarship. You see a bit of this here when they engage with Javad defending bart erhman again, Erhman is someone who believes the son of man is a distinct figure from Jesus. they scoff at it because of the potential ammo for us to use on the muslim side that the prophet SAWS is the son of man without being objective. Again they don’t say “this view on the son of man is respectable but i take another one” In reality these guys are as much apologists as i am and that’s the ironic reality lol. I’m just not ashamed in saying it.
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@Little_Ms_Nope @Justreadin78010 No worries I also need to go to bed. Look forward to your reply.
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@LogosN11514 @Justreadin78010 I'm actually glad you brought this up, but I am going to sleep I have to work early tomorrow. So I will address this when I get off work tomorrow with a good explanation. I'll bookmark.
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Nor anywhere in Tanakh is it stated that messiah is supposed to be worshipped, or substituted for HaShem.
Abi@abi4560
Nowhere in the entire Tanakh(OT) are we instructed to believe in a crucified messiah for atonement. Flour has 100% more atoning ability than a human sacrifice. In Lev 5:11-13 Flour is accepted for atonement. In the entire Tanakh(OT) human sacrifice is never accepted.
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@Little_Ms_Nope @Justreadin78010 I have no problem with the messiah being descended from David from the male line that doesn't however mean he isn't also divine. Also early Jews in the bce thought of the son of man as pre-existent and divine see 1st enoch 48:1-5.
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Seed of David Must Be Physical, Biological Offspring Through the Male Line.
2 Samuel 7:12 "When your days are complete and you lie with your forefathers, I will raise up after you your offspring who will issue from your loins, and I will establish his kingdom."
motza'ei me'ayikh, literally "coming out of your inwards"
2. Psalm 132:11 "The Lord has sworn to David, a truth from which He will not retreat "Of the fruit of your body I will set upon your throne"
"Fruit of your body" peri vitnekha
3. 1 Chronicles 17:11 "and it shall be that when your days are complete to go to your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring after you, one of your own sons, and I will establish his kingdom"
"One of your own sons" benekha "your son"
4. Isaiah 11:1 "A staff will emerge from the stump of Jesse, and a shoot will sprout from his roots."
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@Little_Ms_Nope @Justreadin78010 I agree that the ancient of days in Daniel 7 is God who is separate from the son of man but that doesn't mean that it is physical seed. In Daniel 7 "like" is used for kingdoms that are represented as creatures so I don't see why "like" son of man has to literally be a son of man.
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What??
No no no...
For example tanakh clearly distinguishes
Micah "ruler from ancient days" מִקֶּדֶם מִימֵי עוֹלָם
Daniel "Ancient of Days"
עַתִּיק יוֹמִין
Micah refers to a human Davidic king with "ancient days" pointing to the historical Davidic covenant
2 Samuel 7:16
Daniel "Ancient of Days" is HaShem Himself the eternal judge
separate from the "son of man" who receives authority Daniel 7:13–14 from physical seed bar enosh.
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@Little_Ms_Nope @Justreadin78010 This doesn't work as the Ancient of Days then could be interpreted as a kingdom. Additionally if the Ancient of Days who is God who is a person has a throne and the son of man also has a throne next to him then it doesn't make sense for this figure to suddenly be a kingdom.
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@LogosN11514 @Justreadin78010 No one like the son of man is referring to the human Davidic Kingdom.
Again like if you look previously it's speaking about the kingdom's prior to it is another kingdom it's a humble Kingdom, a human Kingdom.
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@Little_Ms_Nope @Justreadin78010 I agree it is a vision but visions are supposed to convey real events using symbolic imagery. The catholic church isn't relevant here as it isn't an empire. Also the son of man is a person not kingdom. My example of cloud riding is a lot closer to daniel 7 than just clouds in ez.
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Daniel is in a dream and observing things that have never happened. "Night vision"
They are metaphors for the kingdoms that will arise, then moshiach will come.
When you look at these passages in prophecy, whenever you see the number four, it talks about Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome.
The fourth kingdom is morphing into different pieces (These Babylon, Persia and Greece are never fully destroyed, but morph and blend into each other) this is a pattern. Rome is still in play today, the Catholic Church.
Now, see where it says "LIKE A BEAST" "LIKE A LION"
It's not saying it's literally a beast, the same applies with the 5th kingdom the kingdom of the anointed king (moshiach), is "LIKE A MAN"
If you look at "clouds" all throughout Hebrew scriptures, you will understand why. (Ezekiel 38-39)
The war of Gog Magog
Two groups of people (two forces in this world), ones who look to the clouds of heaven, same that protected us from the elements in Exodus and guided us to the promised land (the Jewish people and those that acknowledge the creator as one)
Then the ones that trust in worldly physical protection, idols etc.
Moshiach isn't literally walking on a cloud,
Daniel is showing and bringing into view the two groups, those that trust in the roof and those that do not. Those that don't trust in the roof, go to war with those who do trust in the roof. Zechariah 12-13
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If he could expect it for one generation why not more?
Josh Watson@JoshuaLWatson
Have any biblical scholars argued that the sheer demandingness of the Sermon on the Mount is evidence that Jesus expected the imminent end of the present evil age? That stuff may make more sense as emergency-end-times living than as a centuries-enduring ethical philosophy.
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@Little_Ms_Nope @Justreadin78010 It says one "like" a son of man not that he is a son of man. Also he comes with the clouds which is an God exclusive description see isaiah 19:1, deut 33:26. Also pelach is used for serving or worship of God and its used for the son of man hardly something a human can receive.
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Context matters and I've already dealt with you on numerous occasions where your ego gets hurt.
Your fight is with HaShem, not me.
"one like a son of man was coming with the clouds of heaven"
The "Son of Man" (Mashiach) literally human from human seed, bar enosh equivalent in Aramaic, approaches the "Ancient of Days" (HaShem) and receives dominion from Him.
Zechariah 14:9
וְהָיָה יְהוָה לְמֶלֶךְ עַל־כָּל־הָאָרֶץ בַּיּוֹם הַהוּא יִהְיֶה יְהוָה אֶחָד וּשְׁמוֹ אֶחָד
"And HaShem will be King over all the earth; on that day HaShem will be One and His Name will be One."
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Sheesh the replies to this are absolutely ridiculous.
CCG BRYSON@BrysonGray
Saying Jesus broke the sabbath is saying that he was a sinner. In that case, we really do serve a different Jesus 🤷🏾♂️ my messiah didn’t sin.
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@abi4560 No John doesn't disagree. In John 19:14 when he talks about the preparation of passover it means they were preparing for the sabbath that occurred the next day during passover week. see Mark 15:42-43, Luke 23:54, Josephus Antiquities 16:163, John 19:31. So it is Friday Jesus dies
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