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My latest:
On Concords failure and our need to turn every success and failure into a teachable moment
open.substack.com/pub/jmargaris/…
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James Margaris
25.7K posts
James Margaris
@MarkyMarg2
A perfectly harmless box. Game dev, half of Dark Roast Entertainment. Games criticism at https://t.co/TLW810YNxU
Katılım Ekim 2013
212 Takip Edilen304 Takipçiler
@Buren04 @zandowastaken When I mash I get Double Down sometimes and occasionally I get the completely wrong second character!
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@zandowastaken Yeah if you mash to confirm your pre-selected loadout too quickly you just get default skin and double down. It also doesn’t remember your loadout from last time when you first log on to play
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something I can't understand about 2xko is why champ select has to be such a slog
you play the same team every game but need to manually choose your characters, skins, colors and fuse every single time
the clunky "loadout" system they added sadly didn't solve the issue at all
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@zandowastaken It also sometimes forgets what fuse you're in - you mash X fast enough and every once while in a while load into the game with Double Down.
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@azormx @D4yumSearedByt3 @Sajam I would argue that labbing in training mode shouldn't be as effective as it is, and that fighting human opponents should be the main way to improve while training mode is used for minor optimizations and figuring out corner cases.
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@MarkyMarg2 @D4yumSearedByt3 @Sajam Honestly I think this is just a population issue. By the nature of the genre, streamers are always trying to be #1, hence why they need the training. If there were more casual players, you could tune in to streamers who play for fun and giggles.
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This has been part of my larger point about difficulty in the past few years.
Every genre of competitive multiplayer games is difficult to get into, but they don’t have to sacrifice that to gain users. I don’t think fighting games need to either. Nice read.
6 weetbix@6weetbix
Fighting games are bad products, not bad games. The genre's 25-year fixation on its core gameplay has gotten us nowhere. Meanwhile Chesscom got 10 million DAUs just by making chess a better product. We need to think more seriously about how these games are packaged. ↓
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@Vsolidest @Sajam I was a top like 0.01% player at Hearthstone Battlegrounds.
It's bad to be convinced about things you know nothing about!
I mute you now because I have little patience, happy valentine's day!
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@MarkyMarg2 @Sajam Mobas teach you almost nothing. The tutorial is just this is how you move, these are towers, these are abilities, last hitting is good smile, now go ham. I’m convinced you haven’t experienced what it’s like to try to really truly get good at another genre like you have fgs.
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@Vsolidest @Sajam If you come around a corner and shoot a guy with a shotgun it's extremely obvious to everyone involved what just happened. There is zero rules confusion there - you got shot by a gun and died.
You're arguing to just to argue.
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@MarkyMarg2 @Sajam You can win games (though be unable to exactly articulate how that happened beyond “I got kills”) just deathmatching in random corners of the map or holding the same angles over and over in gold ranks in fps games too. You are vastly overestimating what is intuitive for normies.
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@Huy30549928 @Sajam By the way here it is landing at top 24 at FF:
youtu.be/pbkxaPpDX6Q?t=…
"I always parry this move that the best players on earth still get hit by" - yes yes I wasn't born yesterday, I've heard this a million times, it's both wrong and boring!
YouTube
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@Huy30549928 @Sajam You didn't understand anything I wrote so I'm going to go ahead and say that you are in fact the stupid one.
Thanks for weighing in though, I was dying to know what a moron thought.
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@Vsolidest @Sajam I'm not saying "they can win via simple repetitive tactics", it's that the repetitive tactic works because players are taught you press back to block but that's confusingly not how it actually works. It's an example of how these games are hard to learn.
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@Vsolidest @Sajam My point is that in gold ranks at 2XKO Yasuo players can win by doing one block string over and over because the rules of the game (that you have to block in the "wrong" direction) are so unintuitive.
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@PhiDXGames @KayleMain54 The people in your discord are not the expanded audience that these suggestions are trying to attract, they are extreme outliers.
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@KayleMain54 You'd be surprised I think.
There are people in my comments and my discord who like drills and competitive Tekken, but don't like fighting humans
Chess Puzzles are probably a similar type of enjoyment. I don't play much chess but love the puzzles.
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@KayleMain54 @PhiDXGames Their idea for a single-player mode as a series of training chores is extremely misguided, and the people who think this is a good idea are way too deep in the FGC rabbit hole.
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@PhiDXGames No casual fighting game player is going to get into single player "routines" that are basically disguised tutorials. Clearly written by somebody who's far from a casual that thinks this is enticing.
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@D4yumSearedByt3 @Sajam This is a huge issue. You turn on a 2XKO stream and 70% of the time they're in training mode.
People want to learn the game by PLAYING the game, not by doing a separate mode that feels like a chore. The focus on "labbing" has been devastating, people don't enjoy homework.
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@Sajam One thing is that fighting games have more offline training. It’s a lot more necessary to lab your interactions to know your options and to practice your combos.
Practice is less mandatory in these other games.
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@jchensor @JayViscant @Mikeand1keFGC I was trying to teach my friend fighting games and he was trying to teach me FPS games. Learning FPS games is an order of magnitude easier - I understand all the basic rules in an hour, but I gave up trying to explain "hit stun deterioration" lol.
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@MarkyMarg2 @JayViscant @Mikeand1keFGC Honestly, you'll get no arguments from me. And that's what I mean from "intuitive". At least in FPS, it makes sense that you'd want to hide behind corners, learn to aim better, try to not stay in one place if someone is shooting at you, etc. Like... you'd do that in real life.
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@jchensor @JayViscant @Mikeand1keFGC Concrete example: Yasuo has a move where he slices through you and you have to block it the "wrong" way. That's not his character-defining trait it's just one of fifty things he can do, and it goes directly against the rules as a bronze player would understand them.
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@jchensor @JayViscant @Mikeand1keFGC 4. How to improve at an FPS is pretty obvious: aim better, use cover, stick with team, use smart tactics, etc.
Modern fighting games are full of knowledge checks and often to figure them out you have to have someone explain to you or go into training mode.
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