Nam

Persona's Difficulty Problem Link in reply!

@cartoonshi Once again, why not fix the issues instead of making them worse?

@NamsCompendium Yes chests reset in Golden, which is the versions they are specifically remaking and the version most people have played. I don't understand why Golden should be removed from this conversation when it's very much relevant. Your critiques are still valid but let's not split hairs.

A game needs concrete rules and restrictions to be fun. So yes, removing the SP management from the SP management game is bad design.

@Playmygames0 I play atlus games yes

@NamsCompendium Guy who plays persona for difficulty

All of these small “quality of life features” compound on each other. P4R is going to be a really easy and boring game to play because Atlus doesn’t trust players to meaningfully engage in their systems anymore. They care more about looking cool than being fun.

@Anderdoofus @osu_MeovvCAT Because a balanced game is a more fun game? I dunno why that needs to be asked lol. I don't need to play this game to tell it's gonna be easy as shit from what they're showing

@NamsCompendium @osu_MeovvCAT Why do they need to balance the game? You haven't played the game yet so what needs balancing if you actually haven't experienced the changes or difficulty yet?

“Let’s remove the resource management in the resource management game!!!!” Don’t be disingenuous. You know exactly why this is a problem and why people won’t like this.

@cartoonshi Chests reset in Golden. Not the ps2 game. Golden has its own issues that are separate from this conversation. We're talking about Persona 4 Revival right now. That game should fix issues that existed in the past, not make them worse

@NamsCompendium I would completely agree with all of this if it wasn't already extremely easy to trivialise SP management in Persona 4 already. Soul Drops are already very common and chests reset every time you leave a dungeon, and the Fox makes SP a non-issue.

@Anderdoofus @osu_MeovvCAT So they shouldn't balance the game then?

@NamsCompendium @osu_MeovvCAT buddy if you wanna play the game on resource management mode do it yourself p4 wasn't hard to begin with theres no way you aren't baiting LOL

@osu_MeovvCAT So that means they shouldn't balance the game then?

@NamsCompendium Nam, you should know better than anyone how this is a non-issue given every other restorative option in Persona 4. I appreciate your speculative takes on Persona's balance issues but this is really not it.

@1488Juice You can't farm chests in the original P4. You can in Golden but not in the ps2 game. Dungeon layouts only change after you leave the Midnight Channel in PS2, and only then will chests reset

@NamsCompendium The problem with the original P4 is that as soon as you unlock the second dungeon, you can farm chests. Persona 3 gave you HP and SP recovery for free but the resource is your stamina. You will get tired after battles. When party members get tired, they leave the dungeon.

Alright, let me explain why this is a bad idea and how small “meaningless changes” like this ripple throughout the entire game design and structure. Persona 4 is a game all about resource management 🧵

@chungusblud But we aren't talking about Persona 4 Golden, are we?

@NamsCompendium I’m also seeing people (including op) say that golden already had some easy resource management to begin with but like…. isn’t that what the remake should be for ? To iron out those flaws, it’s funny how a remake being faithful only matters when its convenient to certain folk

@MarshSMT You don’t understand I need gps to know where I’m supposed to go here

You can block enemies without timing to get instant player advantages, and now SP management is completely meaningless. None of this makes the game "better"; there's nothing fun about a game that plays itself.

Everything about the dungeon crawling that we’ve seen looks to be a massive step back in a game design sense. The gold sparkles tell you where to go at all times; the auto skill button is now on a face button, making it easy to just mash through the game.

Since there’s literally 0 reason to worry about SP in this game, nothing is stopping you from speeding through every dungeon on your first visit. This was something that took planning and skill in the original P4 but is now handled for you. This removes player input.

From what we’re shown in this demo, SP recovers automatically without any action needed on the player's end. It might look like a small amount, but it matters. This isn’t even factoring in the SP items you get from breaking objects or Prime Time’s free skill cost

It’s up to you to decide whether or not the SP recovery is worth the opportunity cost. That’s what makes Persona 4 a video game. It’s the fact that the player themselves needs to interact with it. Pretty basic shit right? So how come Revival is cutting back on that player choice?

SP in p4 is your main dungeon limiter. Believe it or not, recovering SP isn’t something that the game makes easy. In previous versions, every SP recovery option came with an opportunity cost. That can exist in the form of money, persona skill slots, and shuffle time rewards.

Spend more money, and you can't afford equipment. Personas have limited skill slots. Shuffle time has even better rewards you can pick up if you’re willing to let yourself run low on gas. There’s a clear cause and effect with these decisions.

Smart play is encouraged so you can prolong your dungeon visit and make the most out of the time you spend on the activity. Should I fight this enemy right now or avoid it? My SP is looking pretty low here, so is it really safe? I wonder if I can push my luck...

By forcing a limit on the potential SP you have in any given dungeon visit, the way the player interacts with the gameplay changes significantly. In P4, you want to exploit weakness as much as possible since it gives you the largest return on investment.