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My Contacts With Tucker Carlson About Anti-Semitism on His Show
A few weeks ago, a mutual friend asked me if I’d be willing to speak to Tucker Carlson off the record. I agreed and Tucker called me three weeks ago to talk. I continued texting with him for eight days after that.
But this past Friday, Tucker released a video in which he reported to the public on his off-the-record conversations with me. Inaccurately, of course. So here’s some additional information on my short-lived discussions with Tucker Carlson about anti-Semitism on his show.
Tucker called me on Sunday, February 1. We talked for 1 hour and 23 minutes. Here’s what I noted down on my desk calendar right after the call:
"8 am Tucker Carlson 83-minute call wanting to know how to end the charges of anti-Semitism against him. Trump told him to end it on Jan 11."
As you can see, Tucker explained that he was calling because he had come under pressure from President Trump at his famous meeting at the White House on January 11. He told me the administration wants him to find a way to stop his high-profile fights with Jews and Zionist Christians. Tucker told me that he wanted my advice on “practical steps” he could take to change the impression that he is an anti-Semite.
I thought he was asking me to host him in Israel. So I explained to him that I can’t do much to help him, because just about every Jew I know believes he’s been waging a savage campaign against Jews, Judaism, and Israel for the past 18 months—and that most think his aim is to drive Jews and Zionist Christians out of the Trump coalition and out of the Republican party. I said that even a year ago, quite a few Jews would probably have jumped at the chance to appear on the Tucker Carlson Show and to present an alternative point of view, but that this looked impossible to me now—and that it would stay that way as long as there’s no change of direction on his part.
Tucker wanted me to explain to him why anyone would think he was an anti-Semite. I answered that question for more than an hour, giving him a series of examples of statements he and his guests had made on his show that seemed completely unhinged and motivated by a desire to slander Jews, Judaism, Israel, and Zionist Christians in order to do as much harm as possible. He kept expressing amazement that anyone would think he was an anti-Semite, and I kept giving him more examples of why I thought any fair observer would reach that conclusion if they were familiar with the relevant conversations he had hosted on his program.
The conversation ended with my agreeing to continue the discussion. I didn’t feel he was open to dialing down the hostility toward Jews, Judaism, Israel, and Zionist Christians constantly being expressed on his program. But I also didn’t want to close the door to the possibility that the pushback from the administration would eventually get him to make a change. (Anyone who has been following Tucker’s program in the weeks since January 11 knows that, so far, there hasn’t been any such change.)
On February 3, Tucker wrote to me asking if he could speak at the first Israeli National Conservatism Conference (NatCon), which is scheduled to be held in Jerusalem on June 8-10. I was taken aback that he would ask for something like that, given the content of our conversation two days earlier. But I did my best to draft a reply that would reinforce my previous description of what a great many Jews, Israelis, and Zionist Christians think of Tucker right now. Here’s what I wrote in response to his request to speak at the first NatCon conference in Israel:
"Tucker, I appreciate the offer. But I need people to show up at this event. Realistically, Jews and Zionist Christians are not going to share a platform with you or come to hear you under the current circumstances. I’m just speaking descriptively about the situation: Much of the lineup will revolt if you join the program and that story will blow back on you [and other public figures] in addition to blowing up the conference. If you want to change this situation, there are things you can do unilaterally to shift the dynamic and I think that’s the way to move forward."
I thought Tucker had finally gotten the message that he should stop asking me for favors, and instead consider how he could make unilateral changes that would help people get past the impression that he is one of the leading Jew-haters of our generation.
But then on February 9, he wrote to ask me if I would set up a meeting for him with Prime Minister Netanyahu. I’m not sure why he thought I was the right address for that request. But I knew very well that if someone were going to contact the Prime Minister’s office with such a misguided idea, it wasn’t going to be me. Here’s what I wrote in reply to his request that I arrange a meeting for him with Bibi:
"I don’t see how that could happen. It doesn’t serve any interest I’m aware of. It could only damage him."
This was a perfectly honest answer, and Tucker could have thanked me for giving him my honest assessment of the situation he has created. But Tucker wasn’t happy with it, and he typed an agitated little speech into his phone to indicate that our conversation had come to an end.
On February 20, Tucker released a peevish summary of the contacts between us as part of a wild video in which he also suggested that Israel might be trying to kill him and his family.
That’s the story. I’ll just add one comment. Most of what I do in public life is building coalitions. That means I talk to a lot of people who don’t agree with me on all sorts of things, and sometimes that means meeting with people who don’t like me very much. I have these in-person, off-the-record conversations because often people turn out to be quite different in private. Sometimes, I’ve just misunderstood who they are from their public appearances. Sometimes, I’ve understood very well who they are, but it turns out they are willing to explore the possibility of making a change. And also: Even when nothing else comes of it, I learn a tremendous amount about people from these private conversations.
In Tucker’s case, the private person turns out to be exactly who we’ve been seeing in public. As of now, I’m not seeing any sign that he is willing to play ball with the mainstream nationalist camp in the Republican party, much less that he has any regrets about who and what he has become since leaving Fox News in 2023. Whatever his motives for turning his podcast into what seems to be a circus of anti-Jewish messaging, right now that project is clearly more important to him than helping the administration keep its coalition together so it can govern effectively and win elections in 2026 and 2028.
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