SPOCRA

@sowmaler @ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto All depends on what the goals of the network are. Cardano's vision for example is to connect the unconnected and provide financial services and identity management for the billions that lack it. The people will decide, they will vote who represents them in government.

100%, so will the rest of the Western countries. The other two biggest countries China and India want their own version of blockchain so you are out of luck. Decentralization is great. It is a means to create a secure form of money and software, but only to the extent it allows the rule of law to function. Blockchains that can't comply with legitimate laws of society will be stamped out from an adoption standpoint. They may exist physically but they won't be of any use to most people( I guess you can still use it in the black market) if It goes against the most powerful governments in the world.

Who has a more die hard community?

@ZillaOGG @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Depends on what the people need and whether they agree with the network's principles and priorities. At the end of the day, the people decide. If they want it, they find a way to make it work, even if that means changing laws or overthrowing their government.

@SPOCRA_Official @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto I just don't see what is more appealing about a network that is banned versus one that is adopted. Most countries citizens/businesses would prefer to use the one they can transact with US businesses.

@ZillaOGG @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Adoption and stability are not always correlated that way. America is quickly falling behind being that leader for the world, too much power greed and corruption, turns people off. The people of Africa just need solutions they can afford, that work and push power to the edges.

@SPOCRA_Official @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto But why would the people in Africa rather use an asset that is less adopted therefore less stable? America is typically the world leader when it comes to everything, if America doesn't want it, other countries follow suit.

@sowmaler @ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Majority of people under their jurisdiction. The world is bigger than the US. And if the US continues is present track, the dollar will not hold the power it presently has. 3B people in Africa seeking services our projects provide. Plenty of space for adoption.

@SPOCRA_Official @ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Make it hard? No they can make it useless for the majority of people. Crypto without adoption is a fools errands IMO.

@ZillaOGG @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Only under their own jurisdictions. There's 3B people in Africa seeking services our projects provide. We don't need this government, this government needs us.

@SPOCRA_Official @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Sure but they can also make using the network outright illegal which pretty much destroys adoption for that network. I don't think they would have the ability to dismantle the network but they can sure make it a useless investment asset.

@ZillaOGG @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto They can make it hard, but they can never beat us. True decentralization is also resilient. Shut us down here, we're still running over there. A government that rejects this innovation, also rejects the incredible economy it invites, it is a government who's days are counted.

@SPOCRA_Official @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto You CAN fight the government but at the end of the day if they want to make a blockchain un-adoptable, they can do it. The networks who comply will come out the other side of the upcoming regulation the healthiest.

@ZillaOGG @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto This is great, thank you!

@SPOCRA_Official @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Here is the actual list if you were curious: dashboard.internetcomputer.org/providers

@ZillaOGG @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto I come from a different camp, one that sees the government as having grown too large, greedy and corrupt. In my lifetime (I'm 50), I see a country with fewer freedoms, a deep erosion of sovereignty. Crypto to me is the antagonist to that trajectory of modern slavery.

@SPOCRA_Official @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto That's kind of the thing though, ICP wants to be compliant. Going against governments isn't wise. The whole anti-government movement from early blockchain days has stayed with the old heads and will probably die with the old heads.

@ZillaOGG @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto That's interesting. Will help with the new IRS laws if they become somehow enforceable. Accountability in a truly decentralized system is best, in my view, done by the code. The protocol, voted on by a DAO, protects against human error & corruption.

@SPOCRA_Official @sowmaler @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto It's permissioned and voted on by the DAO. Only KYC'd people are approved which I consider superior to people not being held legally accountable for what they do. It's a better deterrent than slashing.

@sowmaler @ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto They're decentralized, anyone can run them lol I'm curious, who runs the nodes for ICP?

@ZillaOGG @SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Yes, whoever is running the nodes for Wangchain

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler We're in an endless rabbit hole here my friend. It's been fun, I need to focus on some other things. Wish you the best with ICP, may the force be with us all!

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler Marketing is fragile, you have to look at it from a legal perspective. I get what they are trying to convey, I don't agree with it, but I get it... does the average user? Lets say it does get exploited in the future, lawyers are going to be using that as exhibit A for the lawsuit

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler there's no trust here, only code. Code execution. Code execution is what happens between subnet modules on ICP right? There's code, baked in, defined by the protocol's parameters, executing on demand. Permissionless, trustless, code.

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler It's weird because it says no intermediaries, but they are the intermediary. You have to trust them to get the assets bridged, that is what an intermediary is. I was being nice by saying weird. I really just mean misleading and borderline dishonest marketing.

@sowmaler @ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto Intellectually it's a matter of perspective derived from risk tolerance vs attack surface vs prioritized function vs energy consumption vs [insert yours]. Each approach has to make a compromise while optimizing a desired feature set.

@ZillaOGG @SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto I agree. It's better than most bridges, but there are additional trust assumptions beyond the originating and designating chain. I am by no means anti bridges because not all of them are equal but we have to agree on the difference If we want to be intellectually honest.

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler Your funny brother lol. It's not weird marketing, it's decentralized, permissionless, non-custodial. Pretty straight forward.

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler Hmm but they are a 3rd party, weird marketing. You aren't trusting a dApp you're just trusting an extra protocol. It's superior to trusting a dApp, I'll admit that.

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler Depends on the bridge being used. For example, Cardano uses this bridge a lot, wanchain.org Assets are never held by the bridge, no intermediaries, transfers are direct, chain to chain.

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler This is true somewhat but bridge exploits are a bit different, you can't safely store bridged tokens because the 3rd party is the one holding the asset that is giving your proxy token value. It's not protected by the protocol, it's only protected by the 3rd party.

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler I can see your point. I can also see where he's coming from. I don't read dishonesty, I read him not knowing as much about ICP as he thought he did, and misunderstanding your pressure point of security concerns around 3rd party integrations, regardless if decentralized or not.

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler I have patience for people who discuss in good faith, you have proven that you can. However, anyone who knows a good amount about ICP and a little bit about ADA can see what he was doing. It was dishonest from the start, there were several things, it wasn't just 1 thing.

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler And before I forget, thank you for your service 🫡

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler At least you said that ICP was different than Cardano, that is more than I got from Raymond. But we still have an issue, a dApp is a 3rd party intermediary, it's not A to B, it's A , B, then C. Any middleman is exploitable, doesn't matter if its a dApp, DAO, whatever.

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler That's correct, there's no bridge solution baked into the protocol, it's all via open sourced, decentralized apps off-chain. I get that your bullish and excited about ICP, happy for you. Just remember, patience and an open mind go a long ways in navigating this space.

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler That is a non answer just like he was giving, there is no bridge solution that isn't baked directly into the protocol that doesn't rely on a 3rd party intermediary. It's literally impossible, if you want to claim it's possible, send proof or don't bother arguing further.

@ZillaOGG @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler Right, besides what I told you, that stack, the rest is off-chain. A lot of it is also decentralized, off-chain doesn't mean auto centralized, so that's probably where this discussion broke up.

@SPOCRA_Official @PoolGrow @sincitycrypto @sowmaler There are no docs for something that has to be baked into the protocol? Yes I'm in a rush to finish this discussion about something I know Cardano doesn't have. The vast majority of blockchains use centralized bridges to bridge assets b/c they lack capability to do otherwise.