@GalacticPoly @LyssAnthrope So you feel that duties, even ones that
—involve bodily contact
—always cause bodily harm
….can exist in a way that is ethical to enforce via law & criminal punishment, before that duty is consented to?
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Ruth Smith
51.1K posts
Ruth Smith
@SierraDeciduous
Curious analytical person. Boring enigma. SF fan. Settler. Ally. Kept. She/her. I block back. I block antis & bigots & antagonists who follow me, why u do that?
land called Canada by settlers Katılım Eylül 2017
1.4K Takip Edilen518 Takipçiler
@LyssAnthrope No. I believe you have a duty once you've created a child to do the things that every child needs to stay alive. Food, shelter, water and pregnancy. If you don't do that you're killing them either actively or by neglect.
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Pregnancy is an involuntary biological process in the body. It strains the outer limits of human metabolic endurance, but occurs without agency or volition.
Forcing someone to stay pregnant is not requiring them to "care for a child" - it’s using their body. It’s exploitation.
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@CPChristianLibe @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 @AtheistL01 When two separate individuals’ bodily rights are in conflict, the ethical answer has ~always been to have them remain or become bodily separated, so that they do not begin or continue touching & physically affecting each other. Even if that is inimical to one party’s interests.
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@CPChristianLibe @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 @AtheistL01 The anti-abortion position is aberrant, peerless, & anti-equality, since it seeks to goes about resolving a perceived conflict of bodily rights by demanding *the opposite* of the rational & sober solution near universally deployed when conflicts of bodily rights arise.
1/2
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When a person terminates their own pregnancy, what is the actual basis for charging them with a crime?
Be precise. Mechanism, not metaphor.
What exactly does the anti-abortion movement want to punish people who end their own pregnancies for?
Right To Life UK@RightToLifeUK
Tonight’s vote means there will be no legal deterrent against a woman inducing her own abortion right up to full-term for any reason, including sex-selective abortions. A civilised society does not permit abortion up to birth. Only 1% of the public support it. 3/
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@CPChristianLibe @kingdom298 @LyssAnthrope @AtheistL01 You perceive liability as a person’s negative bodily rights being potentially forfeit/waived, but only in the context or pregnancy, and it doesn’t work that way, even if that is the only way to help the party adversely affected.
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@CPChristianLibe @kingdom298 @LyssAnthrope @AtheistL01 Their liability does not incl violating their bodily right to exclude, beyond potentially safely corralling them thru legal system. Ex: accident causes other party to need a transplant to live? Ethically, driver cannot be forced to share spare tissue/organ, even if only match.
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@CPChristianLibe @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 @AtheistL01 Do you feel it is justified to quash the bodily right to exclude of ‘law-abiding’* consent-capable persons outside of pregnancy?
*used more as a short-hand for a person who has only and is only exercising their rights. Laws aren’t always just, & can violate fundamental rights.
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@CPChristianLibe @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 @AtheistL01 You are switching to civil liability?
For ovulation, conception, implantation?
And you want to treat sex without planning to continue an unplanned pregnancy as a crime? Cuz, otherwise, how do you justify a person should loose their bodily right to exclude.
…
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@CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 Even if falling human was intentionally pushed, the pusher isn’t legally obligated to risk harm to emself. It can certainly make difference tween whether charged with assault/attempted murder, or (if death results) murder, but that is based on prior criminal act, not cuz of duty.
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@CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 If push did not happen, & instead a human tripped & fell & grabbed onto the hands of the nearest person, the person being grabbed isn’t legally obligated to risk harm to themself & not withhold/end bodily contact in the reasonable & timely ways currently available to themself.
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@AtheistL01 @LyssAnthrope They seem to feel that persons with ovaries have a duty to treat their bodies as if they are an “attractive nuisance”
to sperm/zygotes 👀 It’s inane.
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@CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 Each person has the right to withholding or end bodily contact, in the reasonable & timely ways currently available to themself. To do so is not criminal in and of itself.
Do you think sex without a plan to continue any resulting unplanned pregnancy ought to be criminalized?
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@CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 Only 1st act is criminal, & everything stems from that. Pushing them from the cliff is assault & likely attempted murder. If death *results from a criminal act*, homicide charges can brought.
If pusher risked harm to themself to hold on, they aren’t obligated to hold on.
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@CPChristianLibe @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 @AtheistL01 An unplanned🤰is unplanned, by definition not consented to.
One can’t consent to unplanned actions/events. One isn’t criminally liable for involuntary bodily processes.
Each has a bodily right to exclude.
No one acting w/in their rights is obligated to not exercise that right.
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@CPChristianLibe @LyssAnthrope @kingdom298 @AtheistL01 And if it can’t be proven (beyond a reasonable doubt) that you didn’t intent or plan to kill her, nor have malice aforethought, then courts aren’t to convict you of murder.
Makes no sense to link sex to murder charges in pregnancy. Sex is not criminal, not even criminal negligenc
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@kingdom298 @LyssAnthrope @CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 You aren’t using reason, or even values in your statemtents anymore.
I value equal rights, & you want to ascribe extra rights to embryos that overrule pregnant persons’ bodily right to exclude. You probably value that right in the vast majority of cases, if not all, but not here.
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@SierraDeciduous @LyssAnthrope @CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 Trying to use "ovaries" as an excuse just makes you look desperate. The fact of the matter is that you just want to justify abortion.
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@kingdom298 @LyssAnthrope @CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 I have ovaries, but I am not hetero or bi. Only way I will experience an unplanned🤰 is as a result of assault. If that happens what should my bodily & patient rights include?
I support equal rights, so whatever bodily rights I should have so should other people.
Kingdom298@kingdom298
But you did consent to it especially as nearly all cases of abortion have nothing to do with rape. So already you aren't being honest.
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@kingdom298 @LyssAnthrope @CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 There is nothing wrong with not carrying out a duty involving bodily contact that one didn’t consent to.
Define what you mean by “be responsible”. That word has a lot of connotations/meanings. Which one is relevant: ~Causal? ~Culpable? ~Liable? ~Able to choose? ~Accountable?
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@kingdom298 @LyssAnthrope @CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 So you hold.
Duties involving bodily contact must be substantively consented to. Otherwise one must coerce a person to carry out said duties, or enforce consequences for refusal, which is unethical. If you feel that is instead good, then you believe involuntary servitude is good
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@SierraDeciduous @LyssAnthrope @CPChristianLibe @AtheistL01 Incorrect. I am just stating the truth. So you find being told "do the right thing" is servitude. Man you have some issues.
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