TheReasonableClerith

I don’t think people realise what they’re doing when they say the Buster Sword represents Zack. The Buster Sword is one of the most iconic pieces of game design ever created. It’s both the first and last thing a player of the OG sees. For many players, it’s shorthand for the incredible experiences they had with FF7 growing up, a symbol tied to some of their most memorable moments in gaming. It’s intrinsically attached to the FF7 brand. Arguably even more so than the meteor in the logo itself. Specifically, it's a symbol of Cloud, the protagonist taking you on this beautiful journey. Zack is an important part of the story. He’s the missing link for Cloud, a key motivator and the person who saved his life. He starts Cloud’s journey. He’s also a great addition to the series: a ray of sunshine in an otherwise bleak world. He’s an important part of Cloud’s character. But having a character who played only a small role in the original FF7 (largely due to development constraints) subsume so many of these symbolic elements risks undermining what made those moments special. It slowly detaches long-time fans, the people who have been there since the beginning, from some of their core memories of the game. Yes, supplementary material expanded Zack’s role. But we shouldn’t pretend those works reached the same audience. The novels, and even Advent Children, were experienced by only a fraction of the players who played the mainline game. For many fans, Zack represents the era where the Compilation wasn’t firing on all cylinders. A period where some creative missteps were made, especially when compared to the Remake titles. If we start attributing core imagery and symbolism to characters other than the protagonist people originally connected with, it risks undermining the very foundation that made all that supplemental material possible. The Buster Sword was owned by Zack. Before Zack, Angeal. But it has always been and will always be, the symbol of Cloud and his journey. Anything else feels disingenuous to those who remember the magic of the original: when Square were creating legendary IP that helped define a console generation. That's why the flower and sword, may evoke memories of Zack, or signify a journey, or even represent a fragmented mind - but ultimately, those two objects represent two of the OG's most enduring characters. Cloud and Aerith. *Beautiful image by NCCRYPT - purchase here redbubble.com/people/nccrypt

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 No, you read it that way because you are sensitive to it. Because you, like me, are a shipper. The way I meant it was actually supporting your argument that he actually wasn't as healthy then and it could be construed as him being worse, mentally.

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Don't give me that now. You felt the need to bring Tifa into it, you know full well what you were doing, lol.

"Holding hands is just platonic." Then why do so many of you immediately question it?

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 No. And I don't see the shipper label as negative in any way. What I do too take umbrage with is Shippers who don't admit it.

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 "Speaking as a shipper", is it telling the truth right now, or saying that Tifa is described as the anchor? When someone goes against your illusions, they’re all just shippers, lol. I get it now.

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 *no choice

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 The single scene is all we have, so we have to choice but to make assumptions from it. And he didn't when Tifa was about to fall?

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Okay, "sigh" That makes more sense. You wrote "sight" twice. Personally I don't hear it as that conclusive, but in all likelihood, that's not the same Aerith, anyway.

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 this what i'm talking bout... the sigh is obvious and so is the punctuation in the text box. check out the jp version, especially the expression

You are the one drawing that conclusion. All I said was that Cloud is broken out of Sephiroth's control by a memory of Aerith - which is true. Which explains my view that Cloud wouldn't have been able to do anything to hurt Aerith, this time around. Which plays into my main argument of him being more mentally stable versus the OG.

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Even Barret himself helped cloud once or twice in the game when it comes to this, but for these fans, Aerith has some kind of exclusivity in that regard. you treat it all like a competition among the girls.

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 I don't really see how this is linked to our debate?

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 it's always the same old story and the same old scene they keep using💀 It seems like they're ignoring the whole game, when Tifa is always there to shake him up. Even Aerith herself admits that in the Temple of the Ancients.

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 See, now you're talking like a shipper. I just said "make of that what you will." And drew a valid comparison to two things. I don't even really know what you are arguing at this point? I thought we were just talking about whether Cloud was more or less stable?

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 he doesn't care about tifa right?💀 i swear you people choose to ignore what's literally infront of you... she is literally his anchor, most of the game she is there grounding him/break him out of sephiroth control, did you even play the game? shippers being shippers i guess😑

@trabisescorte28 @MargotxAerith @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 O! I see.

@thereasonablecl @MargotxAerith @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 there is rabid shippers and then there's "reasonable" shippers, that's what i meant.

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Her sight? What on earth are you talking about? Do you mean, 'sigh'?

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 can you read? her sight, the expression of someone who knows something bad happened. play that sequence again.

@trabisescorte28 @MargotxAerith @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 No. There are people that are pro a specific couple in a video game. That's what shippers are. Nothing more complex than that. You are no different.

@thereasonablecl @MargotxAerith @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 there is shippers and shippers lol...

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 No, don't dodge. What are the words exactly?

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 play that sequence again... her sight is notorious, that aerith knows that she died. idk how much more obvious ts can be honestly.

I doubt it. When he sees Aerith in trouble, it's enough to break him out of Sephiroth's control. Now for some reason, seeing Tifa in peril is NOT enough to break him out of his stupor - make of that what you will. And yes. I make videos on it. I've seen and played it countless times. The same thing does not happen comparing OG and Rebirth. In the OG. Aerith dies. There is no vision of Cloud saving her, no parallel world created. No Omni-Aerith who helps Cloud. It's completely different. Also, Cloud fights Sephiroth, something that he would not have been able to do at the same point in the OG.

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Huh, same thing happened in Rebirth... Did you actually play it? Or have you already forgotten that he almost kills Tifa? I won't even mention the last chapter, if Aerith hadn't given him the Black Materia, the same thing would have happened to her.

@aerithsclouds Nope!

omg is england fr gonna lose this game after scoring 4x0

@trabisescorte28 @MargotxAerith @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 We're all shippers here, including you. No-one should be ashamed of it, as long as their arguments are in good faith.

@MargotxAerith @thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 It’s actually pretty common in this community for shippers to try to claim they aren’t shippers. And seriously, did you really think it was a good idea to show me platinum trophies from games in the FF7 universe…? You should know the basics of that by now, having played them.

Which response from her? But remember, there are multiple versions of Aerith - this one may or may not be "omni-Aerith", the version that is already in the LS. We don't know for sure. But again, this isn't blindness, or projection or desperation. It's just the route most aligned with what the devs are saying.

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 You guys really are blind, or rather, you just don't want to see the obvious... in that same scene where she thanks Cloud, seconds later, when he tells her to talk later after the battle, her response clearly gives away that she died on that world. that should't be a debate.

Ah, but that's the point of contention. Whether he's clueless (because he is following the version of events he saw) or whether he is crazy (delusional). In the OG he is so unstable that Sephiroth can make him into a literal puppet. He beats up Aerith. He almost kills her at the altar. He stands there as Sephiroth murders her. Most of that isn't the case in Re-Trilogy.

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Again? I'm not denying the existence of another world where she magically survived... but the fact that he's crazy and clueless is undeniable (unreliable). You realize that when he doesn't even notice how sad Tifa and the others are...

@bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Again, zero comeback, zero merit in your argument. Just personal attack. At least answer my question. Why does it have to be ONLY Tifa for you, despite all of this proving you wrong?

@thereasonablecl @DarkAvenger0000 The fact you’re still blabbing on just proves what a bunch of obsessive freaks you losers are. Cloud and Tifa is the canon romance of FF7. Has been since 1997, it’s not gonna change because you’re a sad little fantasist.

@trabisescorte28 @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 Again. If a motif is used outside of Cloud's lens, it not about unreliable narration. And Aerith herself thanked him for what he did. What is your argument here? That he is making it all up?

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 he's literally described as an unreliable narrator😑 You don't even need to read ultimanias or anything to realize that the guy is completely nuts, to the point where he doesn't even know what's real. hell even sephiroth taunts him with that💀. who you're tryna fool here lol

We're not blind. We're just seeing what the devs are doing. They specifically called out the worlds in the Ultimania. Nomura specifically called out that Zack existed to show players how said worlds exist and are created. Sephiroth explains it. Aerith thanks Cloud for what he did, so this shows in at least one world, he deflected the blow and this version of Aerith was aware of it. So whilst we don't know for sure, at the moment there is much more evidence to suggest she was saved in one world, than suggests she was not. And if that's the case, Cloud is in a far better mental place than he was in OG (our original debate)

@thereasonablecl @bluthundyr @DarkAvenger0000 That's what you think. You and this bunch of blind people who can't see the obvious... Even the way Cody himself talked about Aerith in the interview clearly gives away that she died, I don't know what there is to doubt...