TSQuint

650 posts

TSQuint

TSQuint

@TomerShavit

Montreal Katılım Nisan 2011
7.5K Takip Edilen854 Takipçiler
TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto Just sounds like you always give the benefit of the doubt to Americas actual enemies, and show nothing but cynicism and disdain to its most powerful ally.
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Rich Toronto
Rich Toronto@rich_toronto·
Really? Please explain the over 2 million Palestinians who live in Israel.
IamEuropean@1amEuropean

@rich_toronto You started off so well but your omissions on Zionism throw your whole argument off. It is a political movement or ideology that predicates itself on the exclusion of everyone who is not Jewish from that alleged “homeland”. The indigenous people have to leave. It is 💯 racist

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TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto You and me both, buddy. It’s been tried many times before and I used to believe in that, but after Oct 7th I’ve lost faith in a 2ss (not because of Oct 7th itself, but due to the reaction of the world and the boldness of the pro-Palestinian movement).
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto I think they should learn to get along with their neighbors like everybody else does without the threat of American military backing them
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Mark Changizi
Mark Changizi@MarkChangizi·
Look. I’m an Iranian-American Zionist. But the very idea that we need a word to describe the fact that Jews should have a homeland, and yet we have no word for that similar principle for any other people — not Germans, not Turks, not Indians, not… — is a kind of sickness. Jews don’t possess some special political movement for wanting a homeland. It’s the exact same movement we don’t even bother having names for for hundreds of other peoples. By naming only THIS movement, the Jew-haters demonize only IT.
Mark Changizi@MarkChangizi

Let’s stop using the term “Zionism.” Egypt is for Egyptians. Iran for Iranians. Turkey for Turks. China for the Chinese. The Netherlands for the Dutch. Russia for Russians. Nobody calls these “Egyptism,” “Iranism,” “Turkism,” or “Dutchism.” They’re just peoples with homelands. But when it comes to the Jewish people having a homeland in Judea, suddenly it gets a special name — Zionism — and then people spend decades loading that word up with all sorts of baggage having little to do with the basic idea itself. So drop the term. There is no Zionism, just as there is no Egyptism or Turkism. There is simply the Jewish homeland. Israel — Judea — is the homeland of the Jewish people. It has been continuously their homeland for over 3,000 years. That’s where Jews originated. That’s where Jewish civilization emerged. That’s where the Hebrew language, Jewish culture, Jewish religion, and Jewish identity took shape. Empires came and went. Conquerors came and went. Jews were dispersed, persecuted, expelled, and murdered. But the connection never broke, and neither did the continuous Jewish presence in the land. And like virtually every nation on Earth, Israel is not inhabited by only one people. Roughly 20% of its citizens are Arab Muslims, along with Christians, Druze, Bedouins, and others. The strange thing isn’t that the Jewish people have a homeland. The strange thing is that people insist on giving that one fact a special name, and then acting as if the name itself proves there’s something sinister about it.

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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto Israel is a small country with powerful enemies. To survive they need to get creative. Muslims are the ones that believe in overwhelming the enemy with numbers (on the battlefield and on social media). Israel makes clever moves and all you’ve done so far is list a few of them.
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto I don't care and I don't want any more of my taxpayer dollars or my defense budget to go to a rogue Nation. I don't want Jonathan Pollard to walk free and I certainly don't think him selling us battle plans to the Soviet Union is something I should respect
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto I have a recommendation for you when it comes to shaping your geopolitical worldview. See what the Russian state media is saying, and try to think the opposite.
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto I just don't want any more money or weapons to flow to that particular project. Let them align themselves with China if China will take them
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@chrisgunter79 @MarkChangizi That’s good to hear. So we just disagree on Israel’s approach to their enemies. My position on this changed not because of Oct 7th, but because of the reaction of the world to Oct 7th and the brazen rhetoric that the pro-Palestine movement has now made standard discourse.
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Chris Again
Chris Again@chrisgunter79·
@TomerShavit @MarkChangizi Ah, that's why I missed the analogy. You seem to be under the impression I oppose the existence of Israel rather than the actions of Israel. Whilst there were serious moral and legal arguments against how Israel was formed, it's existence and continuation is a reality.
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Mark Changizi
Mark Changizi@MarkChangizi·
Let’s stop using the term “Zionism.” Egypt is for Egyptians. Iran for Iranians. Turkey for Turks. China for the Chinese. The Netherlands for the Dutch. Russia for Russians. Nobody calls these “Egyptism,” “Iranism,” “Turkism,” or “Dutchism.” They’re just peoples with homelands. But when it comes to the Jewish people having a homeland in Judea, suddenly it gets a special name — Zionism — and then people spend decades loading that word up with all sorts of baggage having little to do with the basic idea itself. So drop the term. There is no Zionism, just as there is no Egyptism or Turkism. There is simply the Jewish homeland. Israel — Judea — is the homeland of the Jewish people. It has been continuously their homeland for over 3,000 years. That’s where Jews originated. That’s where Jewish civilization emerged. That’s where the Hebrew language, Jewish culture, Jewish religion, and Jewish identity took shape. Empires came and went. Conquerors came and went. Jews were dispersed, persecuted, expelled, and murdered. But the connection never broke, and neither did the continuous Jewish presence in the land. And like virtually every nation on Earth, Israel is not inhabited by only one people. Roughly 20% of its citizens are Arab Muslims, along with Christians, Druze, Bedouins, and others. The strange thing isn’t that the Jewish people have a homeland. The strange thing is that people insist on giving that one fact a special name, and then acting as if the name itself proves there’s something sinister about it.
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
TSQuint@TomerShavit

@trawen87 @rich_toronto So I think you’re having difficulty understanding that Israel is not an academic project, it is a practical one. Even if what you’re saying is true, it just proves that Israel played its geopolitical cards right. Sorry they’re not retards like their enemies.

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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto Why don't you enlighten me as to how big their role was in the creation of the state of Israel in their attempt to weaken British influence in that area?
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto I mean that’s alleged to have happened in 1965 when the US signed a secret memorandum of understanding between the US and Israel. You say steal, but it looks more like a clandestine collab.
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto Did Israel steal the materials to make its nuclear program from the United States?
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto So I think you’re having difficulty understanding that Israel is not an academic project, it is a practical one. Even if what you’re saying is true, it just proves that Israel played its geopolitical cards right. Sorry they’re not retards like their enemies.
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto Just enlighten me as to exactly what role between 1947 and 1949 the USSR played in the creation of the state of Israel, especially since the UN was largely co-opted by the Soviet Union that the United States envoy to the UN was a Soviet spy
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto lol you started this attack by claiming that Israel was aligned with the soviets. You’ve concluded by saying that they were always aligned with the US (and here is why that’s bad…)
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@chrisgunter79 @MarkChangizi Israel is the worst way to ensure the safety and survival of the Jewish people… except for every other way.
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Sarah Ettedgui
Sarah Ettedgui@SarahEttedgui·
“Dismantling Israel” is not a thing. It is not an international law mechanism. There is no lawful process by which outsiders simply abolish a sovereign state against the will of its people and replace it with some imagined “state for all citizens. Israel is a UN member state. It has sovereignty, territorial integrity, a population, institutions, borders to defend, and the right of self-defence like every other state. So when people say “dismantle Israel,” they are usually hiding the operative question: by what means? Because if the citizens of Israel do not consent to the abolition of their state, then “dismantling” it requires coercion. And in the real world, in that region, with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Islamic Jihad, and a century of violence against Jewish sovereignty, coercion means war, displacement, domination, and worse. South Africa was not abolished. Apartheid was abolished. Ending a racial hierarchy inside a state is not the same thing as dissolving the national self-determination of the Jewish people in the Middle East and pretending everyone will magically receive equal rights the next morning.
Mehdi Hasan@mehdirhasan

To claim that dismantling a state, a governing structure, means murdering the people who live there is beyond absurd. Apartheid South Africa was dismantled. The white people there were not mass-murdered. The state simply became a state for all its citizens, with equal rights.

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Chris Again
Chris Again@chrisgunter79·
@TomerShavit @MarkChangizi Israel maintaining an illegal occupation for decades and settling thousands of Jews on Palestinian land and claiming they're doing it for all Jews is not the best way to protect Jews.
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TSQuint
TSQuint@TomerShavit·
@trawen87 @rich_toronto Until he realized that Israel was always and would always be western aligned (even before the US was aligned with it.
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto The USSR helped create Israel. The fact that you don't know that speaks to how ignorant you are. Stalin was heavily in favor of Israel until there was a major shift later
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto For one thing they gave away their land to people who owned 5% of it. They were promised control of their own regions for rising up and overthrowing the Ottomans alongside the British army, the British army veterans were heavily against the way things were handled with the Arabs
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @rich_toronto You really should study the founding of Israel and what all went into it more. You speak about it like you know what you're talking about, but every time you open your mouth, you reveal your ignorance
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TD@trawen87·
@TomerShavit @Carneys_Elbows @rich_toronto Not until they give up their nuclear arms. No, we aren't allowed to sell weapons to countries that hold nuclear weapons and have not signed the non-proliferation act
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