Martin Tooth

Just witnessed snow storm sweep into central London from the east with impressive speed #uksnow #snowmageddon

@WelshErnie It does also say in that same section that a financial penalty would be rendered meaningless by the prize on offer through promotion, so consideration has also been given to the prize.

@Toothy73 Not at all. You’re misunderstanding what you’re reading. Section 38 states exactly why they were expelled. "38. The integrity of the Play-Off competition was seriously violated… which in this case must result in expulsion from the Competition.”

Not condoning in any way what #Saintsfc are guilty of but this process has just seen people make up punishments as they go along. What would the punishment have been if we’d lost to Boro? What about if spying had been discovered after Oxford? Nobody knows. No clarity, just chaos

@WelshErnie I think it’s now pretty clear from the ruling that the punishment was partly issued in consideration of the possible prize.

@Toothy73 The point is the punishment fits the crime. The punishment should not consider the possible prize but only the crime and precedents set for punishment within similar competitions. Saints cheated in a knockout tournament. They should be expelled and the team they beat reinstated

@WelshErnie You’re referring to the principle of expulsion, but the punishments for the specific regulations drawn up after the Leeds spying affair in 2019 (note the date) were not set out in any way prior to this matter, which was my only point. Now the precedent has been set.

@Toothy73 You’re right, my apologies. Expulsion from a knockout competition for cheating has been the precedent set since 2006. And in that instance the team they beat were reinstated to the competition. Happened again in 2023. So what do you think is different this time around?

@shevvyt A long and painful one

@Toothy73 I know. It will be interesting to see what the club do now. It’s even been discussed as an item on Channel 5 this am. A long summer for us .

@WelshErnie They weren’t. Everyone else who has been following this story knows that.

@Toothy73 All punishments were laid out in the rules before Southampton started cheating. The punishments have been there to be seen for 6 years! You’re talking shite.

@Budgiekiller If we’d beaten you to second, it may never have come to light. Not this season at least.

@Toothy73 I think you have to take the league spying & play off spying as separate things. Cheating in the play offs is the same as the EFL Trophy break the rules & it’s expulsion. 2pts a team in the league seems fair. Just glad you didn’t beat us to 2nd as that would’ve been interesting.

@MattTrutweinSBE I’m not deflecting or defending and have never attempted to do that, but I don’t think it should have been beyond the EFL to set out some punishment expectations/guidelines when the regulations were drawn up. You never know, it might even have acted as a deterrent 😞

@Toothy73 As with most punishments in the real world, context matters. The punishment is absolutely befitting the specifics of the offence and any related “chaos” is on Southampton solely, and not a reason not to do what they have done

@philclarke0170 @whitcher_j38836 No “he’s” not saying that.

@whitcher_j38836 @Toothy73 What he’s asking is he wants the rules rewritten in the expectation a club is going to act like a complete bunch of c**ts

@MattTrutweinSBE No, you’ve missed the point.

@Toothy73 Not condoning, just deflecting. Your point is essentially what, we wouldn’t have got as bad a punishment if we got caught earlier? Of course the frequency of offences has an impact. It’s so totally irrelevant

@shevvyt Why ever, of course, but also why now when things appeared to be going so well.

@Toothy73 It all does seem arbitrary. The pundits even think the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. Meanwhile our season and reputation ruined. Thecfall out will no doubt go on and on. The whole carry on is utterly deflating.

@JonD_BCFC Won’t dispute that

@Toothy73 Don't all punishments have to be made up at some point? Let them play in the final and the spying would have been worth it. So a good decision and it means other clubs will be mad to do the same in the future

@nickwaites11 You’ve just emphasised my point. Thanks for dropping by.

@Toothy73 And shouldn’t someone in financial services act with honesty?

@nickwaites11 Give it up Nick. Your profile suggests you should be better than this.

@Toothy73 So why are you sending stupid tweets. You could get a job at Southampton.

@nickwaites11 I will, thanks. Far more important things in life than football.

@Toothy73 Enjoy your weekend mate ⚽️⚽️⚽️

@PompeyNev Not disputing that. But clarity would have benefited everybody caught up in this sorry saga.

@Toothy73 The fact is, if you'd lost to Boro you wouldn't have been in the play-off final. If they'd been caught after Oxford, they wouldn't be in the final. And the final table might have looked a bit different. We'll never know. But it's a big, big deal that warranted a big punishment.

@nickwaites11 I think that response says more about you than it does about me to be honest.

@Toothy73 You have got the club that you so richly deserve mate. Classless and clueless.

@CharlieFarnsba9 100% agree and I’m sure this is a stain we will have to wear and be reminded of for many, many years to come. Some fans thrive on that and therefore will look outwardly for others to blame. Many others, like me, do not and feel so let down by the club.

Thing is Martin, literally as one fan to another with rivalry aside, in the lap of the gods go we; as fans we mostly have no control over what our clubs do, take Sheff Weds for example. Then of course there was our situation, first club in a he Prem to go into administration and at the time they had no gauge as to how to punish us, so rightly gave us a ten point deduction which set the standards thereafter. As fans, we of course had no control and didn’t know the extent of the illegal activities of our crooked owners but still got ridiculed nonetheless. To this day, literally, some of your fans still throw at us the old jibe “you stole charity money”, when in fact it was our crooked owners at the time who trousered it all. This was one thing we could deal with as fans and amongst us we raised the money to reimburse the charities that were cheated on. We took our medicine as fans on behalf of the club, if anything it’s made us stronger going through back to back relegations and administration; but if our club did today what yore have been found guilty of, we’d feel just the same as you - bitter, disappointed, angry, let down, conned. The difference is, we’d be blaming the club, or whoever it was they put us in that position, not the EFL or the FA or even the arbitration board like some of your fans have. Yes, we all want to point a finger but it has to be in the right direction. None of us as fans know these things happen to our club until it comes to light - the fans (and in many respects the players) are generally blameless but they have the power to take action; the club and in particular in this case from the coaching staff up to your CEO and quite possibly the owners are where the blame lies.

@davetait1981 If we’d been caught spying earlier, the whole sequence of events changes (and the manager), so no one can say how things would have turned out. That’s the point.

@Toothy73 Aye cos they randomly decided to just lick Oxford didn't they, given that the manager didn't know it was even illegal allegedly. Are you buttoned up at the back 😂

@samtate I guess only time will tell if another case arises and this judgement is used as a marker for those.

@Toothy73 But then you’d need to put all kinds of sub clauses like X penalty for spying X times, Y penalty for spying Y times. That’s just not how laws work. You had the opportunity to present your case, and you were bang to rights, and professionals (2 sets) made the judgement

@samtate But that’s the point - it wasn’t pre-determined that it would be expulsion. It could have been a fine or just a points deduction. Bar now set and will ensure greater clarity for all.

@Toothy73 The play offs is a cup competition. Since when has cheating (in any sport) in a cup competition not resulted in expulsion?