@Dostoevskyquot Rilke in between, "Live your questions now, and perhaps even without knowing it, you will live along some distant day into your answers."
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Cyberpunk.hbar
1.1K posts
Cyberpunk.hbar
@Trancedana
The honest and trustless accounting of all commerce is the beginning of a new decentralized and empowering economy 4all.
Faifax Station, VA Katılım Ağustos 2011
766 Takip Edilen138 Takipçiler
Kafka in the morning, Dostoevsky by night.
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When the Intelligence are Commoditized through AI, and Secured by DLT, $hbar, We Are All In Charge Of Our Fate.
Nancy Pearcey@NancyRPearcey
"Intellectuals are naturally seduced by the idea of a planned society, because they think they will be in charge of it." --Philosopher Roger Scruton
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All Cyberpunk.hbar Welcomed To Hederica.Hbar. The Trustless Web3/4/5.
Visual Ledger@Visualedger
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(This is not a joke)
If you’re holding ‘dead’ or rugged NFT collections on @hedera, I want to talk to you.
I think a lot of these NFTs aren’t actually worthless, they’re just abandoned systems with no direction.
If you’re sitting on bags like that, reply or DM me.
I’m actively looking into how to bring life back into what everyone else wrote off.
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@BlackRock @USOCC The baby boomers estimated total wealth accumulated is over 80T+$$$.. recycle it. The stable coins can fascilitate and accelerate the accounting.
We have the technology, DLT @hedera , we have the vision #MMT. 4&5th Industrial Revolutions: where the Profits/Purpose is De Facto STD
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With the right regulatory framework in place, stablecoins can improve the payments system and drive new forms of financial utility, including real-time settlement. Our comment letter to the @USOCC offers key recommendations we believe will make the most of what the GENIUS Act can achieve.
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@SILVERGOLDBTC28 @BlackRock @USOCC The baby boomers estimated total wealth accumulated is over 80T+$$$.. recycle it. The stable coins can fascilitate and accelerate the accounting.
We have the technology, DLT @hedera , we have the vision #MMT. 4&5th Industrial Revolutions: where the Profits/Purpose is De Facto STD
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@BlackRock @USOCC US Govt needs a way to unwind the 40T in debt. They’ll mint 40T worth of stable coins and voila !!!
it’s just a quasi CBDC -
Lipstick on a pig.
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ABFT Finality under 5 seconds, 20$/hbar!
Who will be the first Accenture on board the 4th IR, to 5th Industrial Revolution. @Hedera is the foundational glue, enabling profit for/with the purpose Deconomy through AI.
Cheeky Crypto@CheekyCrypto
They LIED About HBAR: 99% Of Traders Missed This While the Federal Reserve holds interest rates steady, a massive liquidity trap is forming in the crypto market. Whales are quietly absorbing every sell order in the 0.089 to 0.092 price band, creating a high conviction floor for the Hashgraph. Despite the disconnect between network utility and current market valuation, the 71 billion transaction milestone proves that institutional giants are positioning themselves for a tectonic shift toward enterprise grade utility. The Clarity Act is transforming HBAR into a recognized digital commodity, removing the threat of litigation and opening the floodgates for billions in capital. As we move toward the machine economy with the version 0.72 upgrade, the upcoming 94.5% circulating milestone signals the end of the high inflation era. Click the video on screen to see which assets will lead the next leg up and subscribe for more in depth crypto breakdowns. #HBAR #Hashgraph #CryptoNews
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that's even senseless than all your previous messages brother, hence why it's the last time i'm engaging with you.
"Stay in your niche" is a strange thing to say to someone whose niche is literally Hedera infrastructure. 😆
Critiquing CLPR isn't fighting the ecosystem — it's caring about it enough to read the documents and ask why a flagship interop announcement has no spec, no code, and no testnet integration two months in. That's not "looking other ways."
That's the diligence anyone building serious infrastructure on this network should be doing, instead of blind FOMO.
The Fourth Industrial Revolution isn't going to be powered by closed-beta marketing pages. It'll be powered by the projects that actually ship, audit, and get adversarially tested.
CLPR hasn't yet. When it does, I'll be the first to integrate it, and enjoy this new cool feature!
Until then — yes, as CTO — I'm asking for a tech spec. That's the job of a tech man who cares about retails and communities more than he cares about his own interests and the chain he's building on.
if you wanna comment another time, go ahead, hopefully with more substance than previous messages.
either way, i'll let you have the "last word", as i said this is not a comment-battle, there's no winner nor looser, it was meant to be a genuine debate to bring substance and valid point to the convo, and i've done my best to push it into this direction.
my latest 2cents, thanks for the debate.
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Genuine question for the CLPR optimists — what are we actually working with here?
It was announced at DevDay in February. It’s now April, and as far as I can find:
•No whitepaper
•No published spec
•No testnet code
•No external chain integration
•No independent technical review
Happy to be corrected if I’m missing something public. But until those exist, I think it’s fair to call it an announcement rather than a shipped protocol.
A few things give me pause beyond the missing artifacts:
- The timing. CLPR was announced the same week Axelar integrated Hedera, and Chainlink CCIP went live on Hedera in December. So the messaging is “we don’t need bridges” alongside two major bridge integrations. I understand those can coexist strategically, but it’s a confusing signal.
- The technical claim. “ABFT cross-ledger” is doing a lot of work without a paper behind it. Hashgraph’s ABFT properties come from all council nodes participating in the same gossip protocol. Extending that to a chain that isn’t running Hedera’s consensus seems to require relayers, light clients, or observers — which is the architecture bridges already use. I’d love to see how CLPR avoids that, but I can’t evaluate it without a spec.
- The naming. “Cross-Ledger Protocol” overlaps with a lot of prior work — IBC, CCIP, XCMP, Hyperlane, Wormhole, LayerZero, Axelar. Most of those have had exploits or trust trade-offs, and none have become dominant. It’s a hard problem, and CLPR is entering a crowded space rather than an empty one.
- The context. Hashport wound down, LayerZero exploits affected Hedera users, and CLPR + “Project Full-Send” both landed at the same event after a tough year. I’m not saying that’s why CLPR exists, but it’s worth noting that the announcement is doing some narrative work too.
I’m not writing it off — if Hedera ships a spec, an open implementation, and a working testnet bridge to an external chain, I’ll happily update my view.
I just think healthy skepticism is warranted until then.
Curious what others are seeing that I might be missing. Let’s share constructive thoughts!!
CoinDesk@CoinDesk
🎥 At @Hedera's HederaCon, @Hashgraph CEO @episcini says it’s the “end of the war of the chains” because Hashgraph's CLPR enables any chain to communicate with any other in real time, without bridges.
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@TomachiAnura Fedex head of Blochain recently told on interview, they have been testing every creditable blockchain for over 10 years. CHOSEN Hedera to move their 15M packages a day and 10x more documents.
Securetize, Zoniqx, Verra, Tata, etc. Global RWA tokenized values are chosing Hedera.
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man... again, couldn't agree less on that take as well, sorry... i mean, you're listing logos like they prove the architecture, truly makes no sense at all brother.
LSE, Securitize, FedEx, "GB1000" — those are pilots, partnerships, and council memberships.
Not production volumes, not technical validation, and not proof CLPR works.
FedEx joined the Hedera council in 2020 and has run no meaningful production traffic. LSEG explored DLT with multiple vendors. Securitize uses several chains.
None of these names tell you anything about CLPR's verifier contracts being sound — because none of them have used CLPR. It's in closed beta. There is no production deployment to point to.
You're citing customers/councils of Hedera the network as evidence for CLPR the protocol. Very different things mate.
wanna talk about the "Reviewed, tested, proven mathematically, academically"?
Hashgraph's consensus algorithm has Leemon Baird's 2016 paper. Yet, that's a separate thing from CLPR. CLPR has no paper, no spec, no audit, no peer review. Calling it "proven mathematically" when the math hasn't been published isn't a claim, it's a wish.
And the "academic backing" angle isn't even unique to Hedera!! XRPL has the 2014 @JoelKatz / Britto / Fugger whitepaper plus a 2018 formal analysis from Ripple Research deriving safety and liveness conditions.
Stellar's SCP paper by @dmazieres is one of the most cited consensus papers in the field. Algorand has Micali (Turing Award winner).
Avalanche has Sirer. HotStuff, Tendermint, Casper FFG — all peer-reviewed, all formally analyzed.
Having a consensus paper is the baseline for being taken seriously as an L1, not a differentiator!!
"Hedera is uniquely proven mathematically" only works if you've never looked at the literature for anything else, i genuinely invite you to go research better and deeper mate, there's a whole world out there that breaks the "hedera in unique and better" apart easily.
now the "Hedera does not have competition" part — Ethereum settles more value in an hour than Hedera does in a year. Solana processes more transactions in a day. Cosmos has actual cross-chain interop running in production via IBC.
You can prefer Hedera, i did prefer Hedera too when we started building in 2022, that's OK. But, you can't say it has no competition with a straight face, doesn't hold up.
finally, "If bridgeless is possible, Hedera is the best candidate" — maybe. Or maybe the best candidate is a team that's already shipped a working state-proof system, published the spec, opened the code, and survived audits.
That describes several projects. And sadly, it doesn't describe CLPR yet.
I'm not anti-Hedera. I'm anti-pretending an announcement is an achievement.
Show me the spec, show me the code, show me one external chain integrated on testnet, and i'll invest all my time and skilled knowledge to dig deeper and produce a neutral technical report about it.
Tech spec is the bar. Logos, FOMO and "trust me bro" / "be patient, time will proove it out" aren't the bar.
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@TomachiAnura As CTO, try do better with the Smartnode... dont look other ways... you have you niche, make better CLPR..
Many tries, the Fourth Industrial Revolution is happening, join it, dont fight it even when you disagree personally temporarily...
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I'm a CTO, and i'm asking for technical answers here.
"HSuite should learn from Hedera".... no thanks, we prefer transparency and accountability first, over marketing smoke tbh.
But if you wanna talk business, i can talk business brother. You just wrote: "The technology is great, trust me, but you can't see it because of NDAs, and you should stop asking because consultants like it."
That's not a business argument. That's the pitch deck of every project that ever sold vibes instead of product.
A few things:
1) "Buried in NDAs" is not a defense, it's an admission. Public infrastructure protocols don't hide behind NDAs — they publish specs, open-source verifier contracts, and invite adversarial review. IBC is open. CCIP is open.
Even LayerZero (which got hammered for centralization) publishes its endpoint code. If CLPR's security depends on cryptographic state proofs, those proofs must be public to be trusted.
Cryptography that can't be reviewed isn't cryptography, it's faith. "Trust us, the math checks out" is exactly what every exploited bridge said before it got drained.
2) Consulting firm endorsements aren't technical validation. Big Four consultancies sign on with whatever their clients pay them to evaluate.
They've enthusiastically endorsed plenty of projects that no longer exist. EY had a Quorum practice. Deloitte had a Hyperledger practice. Accenture endorsed Corda.
Endorsement ≠ adoption ≠ production volume ≠ working technology. If a consultancy backing a project were proof of success, we'd all be using IBM Blockchain right now.
3) "Stop being a lawyer, be a businessman" is the most revealing line you've written. Translation: stop reading the documents, stop asking for evidence, stop applying scrutiny.
That's not business acumen. That's how people lose money!!
Real businessmen do due diligence harder than lawyers, because their own capital is on the line. The ones who skip due diligence and trust the pitch are the ones writing post-mortems.
4) "The future is buried in NDAs" cuts against your earlier claim that Hedera has "real momentum" and "global enterprises are adopting.", easy to see right?
If adoption is real, point to it. Production volumes, TVL flowing through CLPR, named enterprise deployments with disclosed transaction counts. Not "trust me, big names are interested." Interest isn't adoption. Pilots aren't production. NDAs aren't proof.
I'm not asking for the future, I'm asking for the present.
A whitepaper. A verifier contract. A testnet integration with a chain Hashgraph doesn't own.
These are not unreasonable asks for a protocol that's already been publicly announced and branded.
Every other interop protocol — IBC, CCIP, Hyperlane, Wormhole, LayerZero, Axelar — published all of this before asking the market to take them seriously.
You keep telling me to be patient and trust the process. I'll keep asking for the documents.
One of those is how diligence is done. The other is how bag-holders are made.
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@TomachiAnura Hedera does not have competition:
Reviewed, Tested n Proven mathematically, academically, commercially, as shown by LSE, Securetize, Takeon, FedEx, +GB 1000..etc..
CLPR "beidgeless" is possible, then the Hedera is the best candidate.
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man... i can't disagree more on that take, sorry.
hashgraph is truly a good tech, but "the best available tech to date" is a very big claim, without real comparision doesn't truly stand.
Hashgraph's own blog literally tells you this: "a consequential risk is a bug in a verifier contract or a flawed state proof implementation." They're saying — in their own marketing — that aBFT consensus does not protect against the actual attack surface. You are arguing against the people who built the thing.
"Best available technology to date" is a slogan. aBFT is a real, well-defined technical property with a precise scope. Stretching it to mean "ensures garbage is unsolicited" is exactly the kind of overclaiming that should make anyone reading this thread skeptical of the rest of the pitch.
If you want to defend CLPR, defend the actual mechanism — the verifier contracts, the state proof scheme, the threshold signature setup.
Those are the things that matter and those are the things nobody can audit yet because the spec doesn't exist publicly.
Please engage with substance if you can, or do not engage at all.
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@TomachiAnura You show lack of a "business" anysis/ accuments.
You want justthefacts, now! about the future buried in NDAs..?
When the biggest business consulting company endorses and adopts the practice, not an opinion.
Stop being a lawyer, be a businessman-the Hsuite should learn from Hedera
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I'm not confused. I'm reading the documents you keep not engaging with.
Let's recap what actually happened in this thread, because the goalposts have moved four times:
You said CLPR's aBFT puts every other chain "at submission." → Their own blog says aBFT only holds when both ledgers are aBFT. Ethereum isn't.
You posted an aBFT definition that described liveness, not cross-chain security. → It didn't support your claim, it described a property of single-system consensus.
You pivoted to Microsoft and 1984. → Unrelated.
You pivoted to "tech isn't what matters, market dominance is." → Fine, but that contradicts point 1.
Now: "you're confused, be patient, enterprises are adopting, momentum is real."
That's not a counterargument. That's vibes.
"Global enterprises are adopting" — name them, name the production volumes, name the TVL, name the daily transaction counts that aren't mostly internal HCS messages. "Real momentum" should be measurable. Hedera's been "about to break out" since 2019. Patience is a virtue; it's also what people say when they don't have receipts.
I asked specific things: where's the CLPR whitepaper, where's the verifier contract, where's the testnet integration with a chain Hashgraph doesn't own. You haven't answered any of them. Instead we got a Wikipedia paste, a Microsoft analogy, a capitalism monologue, and now "you're the confused one."
I'm happy to be wrong. Show me the spec. Show me the code. Show me an external chain that's actually integrated. I'll update on the spot.
Until then, "trust the momentum" is the same pitch every failing project makes in year seven.
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@TomachiAnura TBH, you are confusing yourself in your own opinions.
All that come to past, require patience and timely analysis.. Even the best at the time requires real world implementations, acceptance and utility.. The Global enterprises are adopting n the Hedera is gaining real momentum
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You just said the quiet part out loud, and I appreciate the honesty.
Translation of what you wrote: technical merit doesn’t matter, what matters is Hedera becoming the standard through whatever means necessary.
That’s a defensible business thesis.
It is also the exact opposite of what you were arguing two replies ago, when CLPR’s aBFT was supposedly putting every other network “at submission” on technical grounds.
Pick one:
→ CLPR is technically superior and that’s why it wins. (Falls apart on inspection — their own blog admits relayers, wrapped tokens, and aBFT only between Hashgraph-controlled networks.)
→ CLPR doesn’t need to be technically superior because Hedera will dominate through marketing and adoption. (Coherent thesis, but then drop the “most secure DLT” claims — those are technical claims, and you’ve just said tech isn’t the point.)
What you can’t do is invoke aBFT and cryptographic supremacy when convenient, then retreat to “all that’s needed isn’t only the technology” the moment someone reads the documentation.
The “academic vs. real world” framing is also doing a lot of work here. Reading a company’s own blog post and noticing the architecture is a bridge isn’t academic. It’s literacy.
Wormhole’s $325M exploit wasn’t academic either. Neither was Ronin’s $625M, or Nomad’s $190M.
Those were real-world events caused by exactly the failure modes Hashgraph flagged in their own post — verifier bugs, flawed state proofs, compromised endpoints.
Hedera might genuinely become a standard, eventually. Plenty of inferior tech has won markets. But if that’s the bet, make it openly, and stop dressing marketing in cryptography please.
Let’s do our best to provide coherent talks to our readers, honesty matters when writing opinions. At least from my perspective, we’re not here to win any X-comment-battle brother, we’re here to make our brains work together to analyse the tech and the blog post and find out what’s really going on here, right?
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@TomachiAnura "garbage in garbage out.." but aBft will ensures they are garbage, unsolicited. The best available technology to date.
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Mate, come on!
It isn’t related. That’s the point of saying it.
When the technical argument falls apart, the move is to zoom out to a vague civilizational take so nobody notices the goalposts moved.
We were talking about whether CLPR’s aBFT claim holds across non-aBFT chains. You posted a definition that proved my point. Now we’re somehow on Microsoft and 1984.
If your actual position is “Hashgraph wins because marketing and market share matter more than tech” — fine, say that openly. It’s at least an honest argument.
But that’s the opposite of “Hedera aBFT solves it at a security level no other can.”
You can have the marketing-is-king thesis or the technical-superiority thesis.
You can’t have both, especially not in the same conversation, especially not after the technical one collapsed.
Pick a lane.
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@TomachiAnura Since the turning point of our so called free capitalistic economy, in on about 1984, the biggest cost associated with the successful enterprises predominantly are establishing majority market shares, persistent advertising and influence to ensure their dominance. Ex Microsoft.
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Respectfully, this reads like belief, not analysis.
“Preemptive perfect timed marketing” is a tell. Engineering ships when it’s ready, not when the news cycle needs a save.
CLPR landed the same week Axelar integrated Hedera, months after CCIP went live on Hedera, and right after a year of declining revenue, Hashport winding down, and LayerZero exploits hitting Hedera users.
That’s not preemptive — that’s reactive narrative management.
“Hedera aBFT solves it at a security level no other can” doesn’t survive contact with Hashgraph’s own blog post.
Their words, not mine: “where both ledgers are aBFT, the inter-ledger protocol is also aBFT.”
Ethereum, Solana, Avalanche, Bitcoin — none are aBFT.
So for every chain that actually holds liquidity, the aBFT property doesn’t apply.
CLPR is only fully aBFT when Hashgraph talks to Hashgraph (HashSphere ↔ Hedera).
That’s not putting the rest “at submission” — that’s a vendor moving value between their own private and public products.
For external chains, the same blog admits CLPR runs as “smart contracts with a subset of nodes acting as endpoints” using lock-and-mint wrapped tokens.
That’s the architecture of every bridge that’s been exploited.
Different cryptography, same trust model. Calling it bridgeless doesn’t make it bridgeless.
“Even if it falls short, it reinforces what DLT can do” — no, it reinforces what marketing can do.
There’s no whitepaper, no HIP, no public repo, no testnet code, no external chain integration, and no independent review.
A press page and a blog post are not a technical achievement, they’re a press page and a blog post.
Hedera does some genuinely interesting things at the consensus layer. CLPR, as currently disclosed, isn’t one of them. When the spec drops, the code is open, and a chain Hashgraph doesn’t own actually integrates it on testnet, the conversation changes.
Until then, treating an announcement as a victory is exactly the dynamic that’s hurt this ecosystem for years.
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@TomachiAnura "Definition: ABFT ensures that as long as a message is sent, it will eventually be processed, allowing for nodes to handle indefinite network delays." Every relays, transactions, the aBft insures a complete security without additional intervention, "bridgeless".
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