@Edmitsu @SamLund0811 @999Shaheer H3 terminals don’t actually ruin the H=F narrative. If anything they further confirm human and forerunner are the same.
English
Tru7hNuke
512 posts
@999Shaheer “Bungie themselves fucked up”
Uh no man Bungie devs have outright said Franky o Retcon changed the forerunners with his proto 343 team as early as the Halo 3 terminals made behind their back. As said by the design lead of Halo 3 in the image below.
English
"You (meaning Master Chief who was right there) are (meaning currently, right now, presently) Forerunner (the human ancestors who came before us previously, running before us.)"
Your only deflection will be post Halo 3 retcons by Frank.
Xepyal 🇨🇾🇬🇷@xepyal
@SolemnZoomer @NWBroJaneway Can you give me an outright confirmation that Humans are Forerunners? Not implied, not suggested as, nothing that is not 100% direct literal confirmation
English
@ThelVanDamne @Tru7hNuke if humans ARE forerunner, then he's confused because having been immortalized, he didn't understand the concept of death, and believes the chief to be just an older forerunner he knew before becoming 343GS.
English
@DogFromHalfLife Correct. I consider H3 terminals a big capstone to Bungie lore and they do not on their own invalidate the idea of H=F . The terminals were a group project, and Frank was involved. One of the writers explained their intention.
Frank would later go on to retcon the terminal lore
English
@Tru7hNuke I don’t think so. 99% sure it was literally that ancient humans are just forerunners. The original Halo 2 ending as we know, was Arbiter opening the Ark, finding a “forerunner casket” with a regular human skeleton. Ex-Bungie seem to agree Frank was on his own making H3 terminals
English
@D4JOESTAR @theSpartan9051 I’m talking about how Bungie originally wrote Spark
Him malfunctioning and confusing Chief for Iso was a retcon from the 343i era. (Explained through Forerunner books and CEA terminals)
English
@Tru7hNuke @theSpartan9051 En realidad creo recordar que se aclara que Spark estaba fallando y confundió al jefe con Iso didacta, tiene algo de sentido porque esa conversación fue entre Iso y Chakas por lo que si Spark estuviera bien no tendría porque recordarlo.
Español
@ThelVanDamne You’re now bringing up characters who didn’t even exist at the time.
GS is entirely consistent in addressing & viewing Chief as a reclaimer throughout trilogy. You’re also omitting the fact he considers MJOLNIR to be Class II despite it not being an ancient Forerunner invention.
English
@Tru7hNuke Non evidence? You just can’t stomach when your argument isn’t sound at all.
I’m not filling in any gaps. For god sake, 343gs asked chief if he could upgrade to a class twelve suit.
It’s clear as day he thinks he’s talking to a forerunner. (More likely the iso-didact)
English
@ThelVanDamne lol sure thing bud. Your evidence is your weak grasp of how the English language works.
It’s a silly reading and you’re doing the very thing you’re accusing me of, non evidence based gap filling . Not convincing at all
English
@Tru7hNuke Lmao it is based on evidence. You’re saying he assumed he would know.
Wrong. He assumed he was forerunner. Not that he was a human. Hence the “last time you asked me line…” came about.
Another strange question to ask someone that was never there
English
@ThelVanDamne Why indeed? Spark assumed they would know. It’s then revealed he was wrong about that..
Far bigger gap filling to asset he’s mistaking Chief for an actual forerunner one time and then goes on the rest of the game addressing him normally. Your position is not based in evidence
English
@Tru7hNuke Why would they know how halo worked? Again. My position is that 343GS mistaken chief to be an actual forerunner because it aligns with everything that he said.
No assumptions, no gap filling. Nothing.
You’re jumping through hurdles to try to explain your position.
English
@ThelVanDamne I misspoke. I meant to say [how halo works]. My bad
He assumed humanity knew how halo worked, and that ties directly with what he’s saying in two betrayals
English
@Tru7hNuke What does humanity knowing the fate of the forerunners have anything to do with what spark said?
English
@ThelVanDamne How else would humanity know about the fate of the Forerunners? I’m just using what’s evident from the games to answer your 20 questions. Your plot hole/creative reasoning is just assuming this whole thing is some overlooked writing hiccup
English
@ThelVanDamne x.com/tru7hnuke/stat…
Explained this already. Not a plot hole.
It’s more like asking a kid why he isnt accepting his grandfathers inheritance despite being in the will and being at the place where he’d claim it.
Tru7hNuke@Tru7hNuke
@ThelVanDamne He’s asking the human reclaimer why he is hesitating to do what mankind has already grappled with and done the last time. When Master Chief demonstrates ignorance on how halo works , GS’ assumption of how much the reclaimers actually know is shattered
English
@Tru7hNuke The only thing confusing to me is what you’re saying. It’s a clear plot hole.
It literally doesn’t make sense why he asked chief that question.
That’s like me asking my grandson to tell me how my childhood was.
English
@ThelVanDamne Sorry this conversation is too confusing for you.
It’s people like Halo Guy who think Bungie wrote all three H3 as unreliable to cope with future lore additions being contradictory . It’s the only way to make sense of current lore ‘canon’
English
@Tru7hNuke What? What does what fans think? It logically doesn’t make sense.
English
@ThelVanDamne It isn’t a writing hiccup and I’m only going off what actually happens and is said in the games.
Creatively Filling in the gaps is what modern fans do when they assert in this moment Spark is going schizophrenic or confusing Chief with iso Didact
English
@Tru7hNuke I’m not claiming that you’re wrong in asserting that. I’m saying you’re filling in gaps due to the writing hiccup.
That’s why I called it a plot hole. It’s an inconsistency that doesn’t logically add up with the narrative.
English
@ThelVanDamne I don’t think I’m wrong in asserting he made a wrong assumption or that it’s a plot hole.
I’m only going off what the game said. He did assume 117 knew how halo works, and when it’s clear he was wrong about that , it leads him to question how the reclaimers didn’t know.
English
@Tru7hNuke Again. That doesn’t make sense. You’re asserting that he wrongly assumed that. That is a clear plot hole.
To say it’s your guess doesn’t really matter in this scenario because the discussion is about what the game said.
English
@ThelVanDamne He wrongly assumed they were aware. They were not - and that’s why he said (wrongly) “but you already know that- how couldn’t you?”
My guess is he assumed we would know through orientation from last generation or through archaeological discoveries such as the one in Halo Reach
English
@Tru7hNuke That doesn’t make any sense. Mankind wasn’t aware of what happened…. So that’s why they hesitated.
English
@ThelVanDamne He’s asking the human reclaimer why he is hesitating to do what mankind has already grappled with and done the last time.
When Master Chief demonstrates ignorance on how halo works , GS’ assumption of how much the reclaimers actually know is shattered
English
@Tru7hNuke “Why would you hesitate to do something you already done?”
“But you know that… how couldn’t you?”
English
@TobiMidnight There are other characters who comment on the connection. Terminals make it super obvious Without using Greg Bear book lore, why do you think the Librarian in the H3 viewed the primitive earthlings she found as “special and an answer to the forerunners own mysteries?
English
@justahaloguy Well Spark was rampant, so he's not reliable at all.
But these are the same people trying use Marathon lore as Halo lore when they're not the same or even Cannon to each other
English
@ThelVanDamne Yes the same dialogue.
Nobody was informed - and humanity never had the chance to discover /study the history of the forerunner before they landed abruptly at i04- which is why Spark is confused. Based on hid words, he worked on the the incorrect assumption we would have known.
English
@Tru7hNuke The same dialogue where he was confused why chief didn’t know how the rings worked?
Was all of humanity notified on how the rings worked before firing? Were the people reseeded after the firing were told on how it worked?
English
@ThelVanDamne Spark believing the reclaimers are forerunner can be found in his dialogue (two betrayals monologue and “record of all our lost time” )
Secret of humanity was hidden on ark terminals, and his strategic intel was limited to i04
English
@DogFromHalfLife That’s what Bungie was getting at with the terminals. 343i canon eventually got there as well although in a more convoluted way
English
@Tru7hNuke I actually really like the idea that forerunners and humans are just offshoots of the same species, I think making that canon would be the best way to fix the “human forerunner” thing without erasing the Halo 4 era shit
English