Where the Wild Things Tweet

…thewildthingstweet303485.substack.com/p/part-iv-the-… Parliament just voted for Assisted Dying. I ask what has this got to do with postmodernism and the death of Englishness.

@L4Z3R37H @RadeRadumilo @x3firearms @engineers_feed Yeah, because I am right. The premise demands a magic conveyor, so you have to simply assume it. The plane, on the other hand, has to be entirely real, unless stated otherwise. Those are the rules of thought experiments.

@WildGCTweets @RadeRadumilo @x3firearms @engineers_feed no. you just want to be right. You don't get to throw in physics and reality on the wheels and tires, and still get to pretend a conveyor belt is LONG and WIDE as a RUNWAY. pick a side. the runway is a joke, therefore the wheels and tires are. then it will fly.

We should all get the same answer folks 💪🏼

@RadeRadumilo @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed No, it doesn't. Tyres would blow at a ground speed of 118mph, well short of takeoff speed of 180mph

@L4Z3R37H @WildGCTweets @x3firearms @engineers_feed You start from an ideal (and completely unreal) model in physics, and then you start adding real effects until your mathematical model provides correct predictions of experiment results within measurement tolerance. And both in an ideal and real scenario the airplane flies.

@RadeRadumilo @x3firearms @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed But people still fail to understand why a plane flies. The importance of airflow over the wing

@x3firearms @WildGCTweets @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed Nope. This is a scenario that explains how an airplane moves forward and how fundamentally it differs from ground vehicles.

@YesSirThatIsMe @GandeeJeffrey @engineers_feed I think you have to assume a magic conveyor if that's the only way to meet the premise, but a real 747.

Yes, the physics again. If we apply physics, we need to apply it to the whole scenario. So what about the conveyor belt. What's the "redline" there? What do you think would "blow out" first. The wheels or the huge belt with all of its components and bearings? This is why these kinds of sparsely defined riddles are idiotic. They post them for attention and engagement. And here we all are, "debating". Some even getting angry af and blocking people 🤣

@NickMcLarty @engineers_feed Engines don't produce lift, only thrust.

@engineers_feed I originally said no, but after thought I'm changing the answer to yes. Here's why: The conveyor belt is only affecting the gears. If the engine produces enough lift, you will take off regardless of what's happening to the gear.

@DominickRo23650 @YesSirThatIsMe @engineers_feed For a 747 the tyres would blow at 240mph relative speed to the conveyor. Even assuming the reading where the conveyor matched the planes ground speed and not the wheel rotational speed that's only 120mph and well below take off speed.

@YesSirThatIsMe @engineers_feed It should work in theory, but practically it's up in the air because of a variety of factors.

@YesSirThatIsMe @GandeeJeffrey @engineers_feed A 747 tyres redline at around 240mph. Even assuming the ground speed matching version (not wheel rotational speed) the 747 couldn't reach takeoff speed before the tyres blew out.

@GandeeJeffrey @engineers_feed ..which it can, as long as the brakes are not on and the bearings are OK. And, yeah these puzzles are meant for one thing - engagement. They never ever specify all parameters, and here we are, "debating". Which was the whole point, ofc. Some people even getting angry 🤣

@video4me @YesSirThatIsMe @engineers_feed More interesting is whether the conveyor could provide enough force to oppose to thrust and balance it if it goes fast enough. Again probably not, but as a practical matter the tyres explode very quickly in this model.

@video4me @YesSirThatIsMe @engineers_feed The OP specifies a 747. Scaling up the mythbusters to a 747 yields the tyres exceeding their redline at 118mph airspeed and blowing out. I don't like the reading of the problem that tries to match the ground speed anyway. It seems arbitrary to me.

@RadeRadumilo @x3firearms @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed I think the second is the more logical reading because why else mention the wheels speeds and not the plane's? In either case though the wheels exceed a 747s maximum, at 118 mph in V1, and virtually instantly in V2. I find the first reading uninteresting and arbitrary.

@RadeRadumilo @x3firearms @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed There are two interpretations of the riddle. 1. conveyor matches planes ground speed. This is what mythbusters tested. 2. Conveyor matches wheels tangential angular velocity effectively acting to oppose any forward motion accelerating the wheels towards infinity.

@RadeRadumilo @x3firearms @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed But it would accelerate to match the always increasing rotation, meaning infinite velocity of the conveyor. With no friction to stop it accelerating it will do so indefinitely until the structural integrity of the wheels is compromised, at which point they explode.

@x3firearms @WildGCTweets @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed Why would plane not be allowed to move forward? The conveyor belt can’t stop it.

@x3firearms @syamashrujanam @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed Actually the conveyor would only have to moving at 60mph to exceed the max rated speed of the tyres before T.O. at 180mph

That point is only being made because of the arguments. In a fairy tale real world that is the only way to create enough resistance force with the tires to oppose the horizontal force of thrust to keep the plane still. I will point back to this: The Question posed is to say if the plane is not alowed to move with forward velocity, would the "thrust alone" lift the plane. That is the question posed, That is why the question is posed in textbooks in the "LIFT" section. The textbook writers just did not have the imagination that in Decades future we would be have an internet where such argumentative people would argue that the planes wheels are "INDEPENDANT" ....and that the plane would still move forward. They might have then used long tethers bolted in the ground to keep the aircraft in the problem from moving forward.

@syamashrujanam @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed It's not even that fast for tyre failure 240 mph is the rated limit with lake off speed 180-200. The conveyor only has to be moving 60mph or faster to break the rated limit of 747 tyres.

@WildGCTweets @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed Also, about the wheels tearing apart, that is true as the wheels will turn 2X the speed. But then the question is hypothetical as no one has a treadmill that huge and fast either. So, this is not a point to discuss

@syamashrujanam @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed The premise demands an infinitely powerful conveyor, not a real one. To meet the premise you have to allow it.

@syamashrujanam @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed T.O. Is 180-200 mph, max rated speed for the tyres is 240mph. The conveyor would reach that speed in moments. Boom.

@syamashrujanam @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed The conveyor goes backwards to match the rotation of the wheels caused by the engines pushing the plane forward. The wheels continue to turn faster and the conveyor continues to accelerate. It may not stop the plane moving but it will accelerate the wheels to failure speed.

@RadeRadumilo @x3firearms @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed Sure, and all that means is there's nothing to stop a conveyor accelerating them to the point they blow up. The max rated speed for them is only 240mph, take off speed is 180-200mph. The conveyor only has to go a bit faster and the tyres fail before 180mph air speed is achieved.

@WildGCTweets @x3firearms @L4Z3R37H @engineers_feed What do you mean match the wheel rotation? There’s no drive to the wheels of a fixed wing aircraft. They are made on the same principle as roller skate wheels: to have as little friction and resistance as possible.

@syamashrujanam @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed No. The engine doesn't make air go past the wings. If the wheels are spinning in place then there is no motion, but they're spinning at a speed where the centrifugal acceleration would tear them apart.

@WildGCTweets @realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed Planes create wind thrust and the wheels are free spinning. When the wind speed is sufficient to lift the plane, the plane takes off. So, even if the wheels are in the same spot due to treadmill, the plane's engine would have generated enough wind speed for it to take off

@realMotopsych0 @L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @engineers_feed What's the equilibrium point? How fast does the belt have to travel before the frictional forces balance the engine power? It could easily be thousands of MPH.

@L4Z3R37H @x3firearms @WildGCTweets @engineers_feed Just FYI - the belt does not reach infinity as the engines can only produce a FINITE amount of thrust. Jet engines are at maximum thrust when a jet is taking off. So you are almost at it's limit right there. Lets just double it to be on the safe side, and say we're at ~400mph.