Absolutely Not

@KyriosPhilos Where do you get this information from? This is just shifting the goalpost. You efficiently don’t know who gave you this historical information. Applying to online Muslims is again a fallacy of composition. If some hold that view doesn’t mean all must do so. I for one don’t.

You asked who preserved it, I already answered this in my previous comment: "... the answer to my question is that they were preserved by the Jerusalem Community (the authorative center for Aramaic preservation). As even Muslim scholars & online apologists would acknowledge, the Jerusalem Community was historically led by James (the brother of Jesus) and Peter, who were among Jesus’s closest disciples historically. Therefore, there is insufficient evidence to assume that these words did not come from Jesus. Prove otherwise."

Muslims, what did the historical Jesus mean when he said, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many”? Paul’s transmission of the Lord’s Supper formula in 1 Corinthians 11:25 (and its parallel in Mark 14:24) contains awkward Greek syntax that perfectly mirrors an Aramaic grammatical rule. In classical Greek, stacking multiple nouns in the genitive case is highly problematic, but it is the exact, literal translation of the Semitic status constructus (construct state). Maurice Casey identifies this specific grammatical anomaly as undeniable proof of a written Aramaic source translating the exact words of the earliest community: "...the succession of dependent genitives moy tēs diathēkēs (14.24) [and 1 Cor 11:25]..." represents a literal translation strategy demonstrating that these formulas were directly translated from an underlying Aramaic text. (Maurice Casey, Aramaic Sources of Mark's Gospel, p. 250).

@KyriosPhilos You clearly don’t understand what a hypothetical is. Also I didn’t claim that you had to give a manuscript from the first century strictly. I asked you which manuscript you got this from I don’t grant you anything from your historical narrative at all, who preserved it?

Perfect. At this point, you’re acknowledging that these words originated from an Aramaic center. It’s absurd to demand a manuscript, given the fact that 1st-century Semitic sacred texts were transmitted primarily by memorization rather than writing. Some experts say this formula comes from a written text, while others say it comes from oral tradition. This does not change anything at this point: the answer to my question is that they were preserved by the Jerusalem Community (the authorative center for Aramaic preservation). As even Muslim scholars & online apologists would acknowledge, the Jerusalem Community was historically led by James (the brother of Jesus) and Peter, who were among Jesus’s closest disciples historically. Therefore, there is insufficient evidence to assume that these words did not come from Jesus. Prove otherwise.

@eternalbread_ We don’t hate you. It’s just that you pay mind to braindead arguments and say the prophet not only got raped, but took “back shots”. you can apologise, but this occurrence is just one of many, and shows the hostility in the interfaith community. Truth is irrelevant here.

Me because Jesus told me to leap for joy when people hate me. He said my reward in heaven would be great 💃

@KyriosPhilos The ones who should be documenting what their saviour said? Duh. Like what? If hundreds of pages of books were being written in Aramaic first, or Greek, Asking who preserved them is a legitimate question. Also can you reference me the manuscript you’re quoting?

@YesNoMaybeNoWay Which Aramaic-speaking center in 1st-century Palestine preserves an Aramaic phrase? After this you can see the answer.

@NeophyteOne @muslimorthodoxy @GodLogic_GL @InspiringPhilos Sir, I’m asking why must the document have survived? Or why must have the agreement been documented with ink? If it was, why must it have survived for you to accept that it happened? This is my question.

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @muslimorthodoxy @GodLogic_GL @InspiringPhilos Muhammad's grandfather allegedly established a trade agreement with the Byzantine Emperor (!) securing Mekka as the center of international trade but no Greek, Latin, Syriac, Aramaic, or Coptic source attests to this... Versus the Sunnis embellished their history

Myth of Mekka #1 There is zero evidence for the Sunni claim that Mekka served as a major site for international trade If the Sunnis invented this part of their history, what else did they make up? @muslimorthodoxy @GodLogic_GL @InspiringPhilos

@ThaRealRC He might have not had information that said person was abandoned. Or he might have felt the Hadith was strengthened by other disconnected chains of the same Hadith. Btw I don’t accept Shia narrators, but some could if they were accounted as reliable. Who preserved your text?

Sunni Muslims “claim” that Sahih al-Bukhari is the most “Authentic” book collection of hadith after the Quran. *** Questions ***: 1) WHY did imam Bukhari then use REJECTED(“Matruk”) narrators in his collection?; 2) And why did he also add SHIA narrators in his “Sahih” collection?

@NeophyteOne @muslimorthodoxy @GodLogic_GL @InspiringPhilos Calling a silence “significant” and “striking” doesn’t make it neither of these. Why must the account be documented? If it was, why should it have survived?

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @muslimorthodoxy @GodLogic_GL @InspiringPhilos This is addressed int he screen shots I shared

@KyriosPhilos Who mentioned Paul? Don’t straw man. Who preserved this account and other ones? I’ll wait.

@YesNoMaybeNoWay I think you have an issue at understanding what you are reading. This saying pre-dates even Paul's writings, it is preserved in the Aramaic tradition.

@ThaRealRC The term in context means to crowd as an idiom. But you can crowd someone and rape them. So this is just a red herring. Just because something can be read as such, why must we take your weird interpretation? Why not read it as him communicating with them in a metaphysical way?

@enesovat22 How is this satanic? Stop grifting.

Tell me this religion is satanic without telling me it’s satanic.

@KelvinCeee @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos Bro what? How is this not being able to reconcile? This is an example of reconciling? To claim that I’m unable to reconcile, you have to assume an intended meaning. Why must we accept yours? This is begging the question again. Please explain how we’re unable to reconcile.

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos Finally, some honesty.. U cant reconcile the hadiths, thats my point. Whatever issues the Quran or Bible has, I hold that both have largely the message the writers intend to relay. Hadiths are however very suspect

If a Mormon were to approach Muslims today and say, “Joseph Smith is mentioned in the original Quran; the version you have has been altered very early, but we can still find a few references to Joseph Smith. Originally, Allah was also a human being but later became a god; you, however, have distorted this and portrayed him as the ultimate, only god” Muslims would think this Mormon had lost his mind. Today, Muslims' claims about Christianity are exactly like this Mormon's.

@KelvinCeee @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos She says “I was a girl of six years when I married the prophet, and a girl of 9 years when I went to him” This usually refers to years from birth, but since that’s not possible from her other accounts, we don’t take that view. We don’t know what exactly she’s counting from.

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos Give us the correct translation of the hadiths then

@KelvinCeee @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos It’s not conflicting. That’s not an assumption dude, I’m just interpreting them harmoniously. The 11 narrations are correct. They just don’t say she’s 6 years old. Those are false translations.

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos So u dont know but just assume it. If the other accounts dont make sense and give conflicting infor abt her age, tht proves my point tht your hadith are trash. Perhaps the 11 narrations are correct and its the others that are wrong, who is to say

@KelvinCeee @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos That’s speculative. It could’ve been through puberty, or a specific event. BTW I’m not redefining ‘age’ here. I’m saying it doesn’t apply in this case from birth. One thing’s for certain, it’s not from birth because of the other accounts she herself gives of events.

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos What u trying to do is redefine the term age, as if there is an age counted from anything other than birth. I will indulge u, tell us from what age did they start counting 6 and 9 from?

@KelvinCeee @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos The term she uses is the common usage to talk about age from birth, but it’s not a necessity. We look at other accounts she gives, and determine that she couldn’t have talked about age from birth. This is completely consistent. Don’t straw-man and act like It isn’t reasonable.

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos There u go, u dont believe your own hadith. U cant tell me when someone tells me the age, they actually didnt tell us the age but a useless number that has nothing to do with age. So then we cant know anything since the narrators cant present a simple fact

@KelvinCeee @Percy_official_ @KyriosPhilos You’re begging the question. At the end you assume that what is being said is the age from birth, and claim “we can’t present a simple fact” guess what, that’s the whole thing in question. So stop assuming that’s what’s being talked about in the source.

@KelvinCeee @KyriosPhilos The Hadith says “I was a girl of 6 and 9” that doesn’t have to be from birth. Bukhari 2297 she recalls her father wanting to go to Ethiopia, an event which was 7-6 years before Hijra when she was married. If she was 7 here, which is enough to form long term memory, she’d be 14

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @KyriosPhilos So they say they are telling us her age, but in actual fact, they just telling us random numbers that have nothing to do with her but they are also correct at the same time while they are not the numbers, Do u hear yourself. I

@Percy_official_ @KelvinCeee @KyriosPhilos The Hadith says “I was a girl of 6 and 9” that doesn’t have to be from birth. Bukhari 2297 she recalls her father wanting to go to Ethiopia, an event which was 7-6 years before Hijra when she was married. If she was 7 here, which is enough to form long term memory, she’d be 14

@YesNoMaybeNoWay @KelvinCeee @KyriosPhilos They don't say what you think 😭 do better next time lil bro