Ashok Menon

64 posts

Ashok Menon

Ashok Menon

@ashok_menon

Computer Scientist, sometimes pretends to be a software engineer @Mysten_Labs.

London Katılım Aralık 2008
28 Takip Edilen155 Takipçiler
pika
pika@pikapikasui·
1/8 🧵 After migrating a Sui dApp from JSON-RPC to gRPC + GraphQL (@Mysten_Labs's deprecation roadmap), here's what actually works in 2026/5 — and what'll cost you a day of debugging. JSON-RPC isn't going away yet. Why ↓
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Ashok Menon
Ashok Menon@ashok_menon·
@0xairtx @TrustlessMike @BL0CKRUNNER 💯 not great at all, that's why I said we know we need to do better. We just know that writing a one off SDK will not be enough. One avenue we're hopeful for is investing in batteries-included RPCs (like GraphQL) - easier to use across ecosystems, and for us to support.
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thouny
thouny@BL0CKRUNNER·
Rinse and repeat with aggregators and with perps and what's next It's insane to have to wait for the DeFi space to run out of incentives to see innovations There's not even one DeFi mobile app on Sui, why? isn't it the easiest and best differentiator?
thouny@BL0CKRUNNER

The Most Lucrative Business on Sui Three protocols represent 2/3 of the total Sui TVL ($0.8/1.2B) and generate millions every month. They are the Lending Protocols or Money Markets. They generate each about 50k usd weekly in revenue atm. But if @navi_protocol and @suilendprotocol have a similar TVL, @Scallop_io is 3x smaller. If we compare to equivalent startups on other chains: - @KaminoFinance owns 5x the TVL of Suilend or Navi but generates 10x more revenue - @aave has 10x the TVL of Kamino but the same revenue So why these big discrepancies? Borrow Fee The answer lies in the borrow fee. This is a fee that is deducted from the borrowed amount. e.g. borrow 100 SUI with 1% fee. you get 99 SUI. but you must still repay 100 SUI at some point. Let's break it down for each protocol: > Navi - 0.3% fee > Suilend - 0.3% (main assets) 1% (isolated assets) > Scallop - 0.3% (main assets) 1% (isolated assets) Suilend and Scallop have identical fee model so why is Scallop generating 3x more revenue proportionally to the TVL? More Fees This is because these protocols collect fees at multiple levels! They also earn from interest rates charged on borrowings which can represent up to 40% of the paid interest on borrows. There are also fees on liquidations (up to 10%) and flash loans. Incentives The thing is that these high fees should complicates drastically the acquisition of borrowers. Fortunately, Mysten Labs / Sui Foundation have massive funds to develop the ecosystem. The insane growth of Sui DeFi is mainly due to huge incentives distributed by users via protocols. It has been very effective (at least on the short term), hence why Aptos is replicating this strategy. Suilend received about $1M in incentives on a 2 weeks duration at the beginning of the month. This completely offsets the fees from the user perspective. Incentives criteria are opaque so all we know is that Mysten is delegating its management to an external firm (@openblocklabs). This firm relies on data (including fees) to attribute incentives. The highest the metrics, the highest the incentives. That is why we see practices such wash trading and high fees. Wrapping up If blockchain was supposed to remove "parasite" intermediaries, we can ask ourselves if we are not deviating from this principle by introducing new "rentiers". Aave never charged an upfront fee that penalize borrowers heavily on the short term - 1% fee on an asset with 10% apr represent about 1 month of farming. Kamino changed this paradigm by introducing a 0.5% fee that probably inspired Sui protocols. If incentives definitely helped putting Sui on the map (top 22 in MC but top 9 in TVL), they first benefit to a minority that "sell the shovel". Not to mention the fact that they completely prevent healthy competition since without these free millions it's impossible to compete. No system is perfect but it might be time for these fintech startups to iterate, especially when incentives are drying up. Bonus, you can find easter eggs like Navi claiming (and keeping) rewards for users that would forget to collect their rewards upon season change (fixed now).

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Mike
Mike@TrustlessMike·
@ashok_menon @BL0CKRUNNER @0xairtx I would say that there is no swift support currently for most sui functions, I know mostly people prefer react but imo for new users IOS native is a hell of a lot better experience.
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Mike
Mike@TrustlessMike·
I tried to go mobile, there’s not enough dev support, had to switch over to Solana. Zklogin, & other functions are not targeted for swift at least and are a massive waste of time. You could probably get away with react-native or flutter but I was talking to @0xairtx about this, the Sui Dev team keeps launching new features and new things but doesn’t maintain or update the docs on the old ones, maybe it’s better by design but it’s a pain in the ass when you’re trying to build
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Mage
Mage@firearrowmage·
@ashok_menon @PerelmanDmitri merge these two pages and keep the migration as a section, or have a graphql folder that contains different pages (e.g. intro, reference, migration guide, operator guide etc)?
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Dmitri Perelman
Dmitri Perelman@PerelmanDmitri·
What do you love / hate about Sui documentation? (docsite docs.sui.io, the move book move-book.com, the move reference move-book.com/reference/). What topics have annoying paper cuts? What themes aren't properly covered? ICYMI, docs.sui.io has a chatbot, which is quite good with answering well-documented topics! (though might have funny hallucinations when asked to write code it's not familiar with)
Dmitri Perelman tweet mediaDmitri Perelman tweet media
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Ashok Menon
Ashok Menon@ashok_menon·
@PerelmanDmitri @firearrowlu @firearrowlu, curious to hear more about the confusion on the graphql topics: How did this split end up confusing your visit? (What were you searching for, where did you start, how did you get off track, how did you come back on track?)
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Dmitri Perelman
Dmitri Perelman@PerelmanDmitri·
@firearrowlu @firearrowlu Your feedback is always solicited :). I think our current philosophy is to keep pages normalized by themes with hyper-links supporting the flow (e.g., the migration doc is linked by the concept doc). But it's all @ashok_menon's fault.
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Ashok Menon
Ashok Menon@ashok_menon·
@dotkusam @PerelmanDmitri Two reasons! localnet and devnet rotate their chain IDs regularly, so using names prevents stale entries lingering in the lock file. We plan to allow dependencies to change based on environment, which means you can have multiple deployments per chain.
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0xAngelo 🦀
0xAngelo 🦀@dotkusam·
@PerelmanDmitri I haven't tested this yet, just read the docs, but what's the reasoning behind keep 'env' information in `Move.lock` at all? As the docs themselves mention, env names are fairly arbitrary (and I myself have several testnet envs). Wouldn't chain id suffice and be more concise?
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Dmitri Perelman
Dmitri Perelman@PerelmanDmitri·
One paper cut at at time: part of v1.29 release, automated address management is replacing annoying package IDs in Move.toml, and is tracking IDs across multiple chains: docs.sui.io/concepts/sui-m….
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Ashok Menon
Ashok Menon@ashok_menon·
@SadMouseTweets Got it! Let us know what kinds of examples would be interesting -- I'll post them here, and make sure they get added to the docs.
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SadMouse
SadMouse@SadMouseTweets·
@ashok_menon Like when I was learning Solana RPC, docs were on point solana.com/docs/rpc/http . You see each call, what it does, what do fields in the query represent, how response looks etc. A bit hard to dig into GraphQL. Migration guide is cool though. Would love to see more examples there.
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Ashok Menon
Ashok Menon@ashok_menon·
@SadMouseTweets Looks like links to the concepts page won't play nice until the fix lands. They are accessible through the docs menu (Concepts > App Developers > GraphQL for the Sui RPC)
Ashok Menon tweet media
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Ashok Menon
Ashok Menon@ashok_menon·
@MateiCopot the editor was Emacs, but the keybindings were VIM, courtesy of the "Evil" package.
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Ashok Menon
Ashok Menon@ashok_menon·
@ezyang Have a look at Cartwright and Fagan, Soft Typing. The trick is to change what you are unifying from types to constraints over types.
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