B.J.W

The dollar use to store value, now it stores excuses and IOUs.

@DavisMC @Danish_SMF Anyways, you’re just repeating your starting assumptions over and over. That’s enough of this merry-go-round, you keep borrowing my view (like heaven solving evil without removing free will) while rejecting it at the same time. Bye

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF If I KNEW with 100% certainty that someone was going to use my car and then run over innocent pedestrians and I allowed them do it then yes, I would bare responsibility for that, absolutely. How would I not?

If God can stop the Devil but won't, and everything is God's plan, then God's plan includes evil. That makes God the Devil.

You’d share some responsibility if you could stop it and didn’t, but that still doesn’t make you the one who chose to run people over, the moral guilt for the act stays with the driver. Knowledge isn’t causation, knowing something will happen isn’t the same as making it happen. If knowing an evil act makes you the author of it, then are you saying the person who actually chose to do it isn’t the one truly responsible?

Now that’s a leap, allowing something and creating it aren’t the same, God permits evil choices and can bring good out of them, but He’s not the one making those evil choices happen. If a judge lets someone face consequences to bring justice, he’s using the situation, not committing the crime. If someone allows a bad act for a greater purpose without causing it, does that really make them the author of the evil, or just someone who can bring good out of it?

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF You said "God allows evil for now to bring about a greater good" That would mean he is specifically using evil as a tool on us. Which would mean that he intended for evil to be used in this way, which would mean that God created evil.

That’s not an answer, that’s just repeating the claim, worded differently. God just does it. That’s the point, you don’t have an explanation, you’re just borrowing mine (transformed people) while at the same time rejecting it. And No, moral evil isn’t something God “created,” it’s what happens when free creatures misuse the good He made, He allows it, but He’s not the author of it. If someone misuses something good you gave them, like a car, and they chose to run over innocent pedestrians, does that make you the creator of their bad choice?

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF However God makes it work in heaven, that's how. Your third option is still "God is fine with evil." In that case evil is a tool used by God, in which case evil would have been specifically created by God for that purpose, right?

That’s a completely false dilemma, you’re assuming the only options are “God doesn’t exist” or “God is fine with evil,” but there’s a third, God allows evil for now to bring about a greater good, like real freedom, love, and justice. You say you don’t "want" a robot world, so explain how you can have real free will and at the same time guarantee no evil, since the moment choices are truly free, choosing wrong becomes possible.

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF I don't "want" that but it would obviously be better to have no free will and also have never had evil or suffering ever. What I want is God to never had created (or permitted the existence of) evil in the first place. So either he doesn't exist or he's cool with evil existing.

@Danish_SMF I knew you atheists were dumb, but boy your follows take the cake. They can't even remember what they believe from minute to minute.

Offering a choice between Option A and eternal damnation isn't free will. It’s an ultimatum: obey, or suffer the consequences. This is tyranny. If God is a tyrant, I rest my case.

@DavisMC @Danish_SMF What are you talking about? I asked If stopping all evil means stopping all free will, would you still want that world? You answered I feel like the obvious choice is yes? So you're the one who wants a world full of programmable robots.

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF "If stopping all evil means stopping all free will, would you still want that world?" this is literally what you said. how am I gaslighting you, exactly? If God can allow free will in Heaven, and still have no evil in Heaven, then he could have done so on Earth, right?

To the liar, where's the question in this As I've previously wrote with words you could have read before commenting - "Also nothing hints". As in "there is absolutely no evidence". So it is theists who are assuming something, not the other way around. It is extensively covered in "Russell's teapot" article on Wiki.

You’re assuming too, “no evidence” is a claim about reality, not a neutral position and Russell’s teapot only works for arbitrary claims, not for something like God that has philosophical arguments behind it. If you’re making the claim “there’s absolutely no evidence,” what would even count as evidence to you?

Free will doesn't explain earthquakes or child cancer. Heaven proves free will can exist without evil, so why not here? And an omnipotent God could stop a rape without removing free will (make the rapist's arm go limp). He doesn't. 2

That’s just false, faith isn’t against reason, it’s trusting what you have good reasons to believe, you use faith like that every day, like trusting your memory, trusting experts you’ve never met, or trusting a pilot you’ve never seen fly. If you already trust things based on good reasons without absolute proof, why is faith in God suddenly “irrational”?

@brianhrc1 @penguinteamsix 😂🤣😂 Fair enough I guess we have an agreement here. Reason and faith can't agree with each other.

@penguinteamsix @Danish_SMF This was my question to you If knowing something ahead of time makes it not free, does that mean every prediction or expectation cancels free will too? But in typical atheist fashion you ignore it, and instead pivoted to something else. You're another waste of my time Bye

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF You seem to not have even read your own mythology rule book, tsk, tsk.

That only works if you assume a “plan” means control, God having a plan just means He knows the end and can work through free choices, not that He forces them. If knowing something ahead of time makes it not free, does that mean every prediction or expectation cancels free will too?

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF Freewill and Plan(TM) are not compatible, logically speaking, but logic is something theists avoid.

@Danish_SMF @penguinteamsix Nothing you post makes any sense, but what can you do? that's the atheist modus operandi

@brianhrc1 @penguinteamsix Think about this please. Does this make any sense?

Wait, I’m the one trying to keep free will, and you’re the one saying “yeah, get rid of it” but somehow that’s my view? That’s, some impressive gaslighting. I’m saying evil is defeated by changing people, not deleting their ability to choose. Where did I get my info? From the Christian worldview, Scripture shows people in heaven still thinking, choosing, worshiping, and loving, which all require free will. If they’re still thinking, choosing, and loving in heaven, what reason do you have to say they’ve lost free will?

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF You're the one suggesting that the only way to eliminate evil is to eliminate free will. I'm saying that it would absolutely be worth it. How did he get it to work in Heaven and yet not on Earth? Where did you get your information on how much free will is in Heaven?

@penguinteamsix @Danish_SMF God’s plan isn’t to micromanage every action like a puppet show, it’s to create a world where real choices matter and then bring justice in the end.

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF So, erm, no Plan(TM) then?

Heaven isn’t your diabolical robot world, people still have free will, they’re healed so they want good, so choosing good is real, not forced. Freedom isn’t the ability to do evil, it’s the ability to choose good without being enslaved to sin. God doesn’t remove free will in heaven, He restores people so they freely choose good because they genuinely want it. If people in heaven are still freely choosing good, how is that the same as a your robot world where no one has any choice at all?

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF They don't lose all meaning at all, that's absurd. no more child rape, no more murders, no more torture? huge wins. no one would EVER get tortured or raped or abused. Is there not no evil in Heaven? does all of the good in Heaven lose all meaning, because evil isn't there?

@DavisMC @Danish_SMF If no one has any choice, then “good,” “evil,” and even “suffering” lose all meaning, you didn’t solve evil, you deleted the whole moral game. If nothing is bad anymore, just programmed reactions, what exactly did you fix besides turning people into machines?

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF what does it matter who is enjoying it? is your personal enjoyment more important to you than eliminating ALL suffering?? yes of course I would rather be a programmed robot with no choices if it meant there were NO pain, NO evil? easiest choice in the world.

@KubricklynchYT @Danish_SMF You just single handedly proved my original point about how atheists obfuscate You didn't answer my question with a reasoned argument, you just demanded proof and assumed the conclusion. Typical Bye I have no time for the likes of you

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF Show me a single shred of evidence that “evil” is real. I’ll wait.

@KubricklynchYT @Danish_SMF Are you trying to redefine evil as just a concept, not something real? But if it’s not a real moral reality, then it’s just preference, not something objectively binding. Is rape actually wrong for everyone, or just something some humans happen to dislike?

@brianhrc1 @Danish_SMF I don’t understand the question, it is incoherent to me. “Evil” isn’t a “thing”