DasOhmoff San
35 posts
C macro trick you didn't know, chaining macro calls macro()()() combined with parameter overloading allows something similar to pattern matching.
You can have as many (condition, value) maps as you want, the last (value) is treated as the default value.
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@filpizlo Do you think that doing big refactorings in a let's say 200k line codebase in a non typed language is as reliable and easy as in a staticly typed language?
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One of the most broken memes in programming languages is that types aid productivity.
They don't.
Types are a preference, at best
Carmine Paolino@paolino
Types don't help AI, they actually hinder it. Proof: look at Ruby with Steep - a Ruby type checker - and without! Or Python vs Python with mypy. Token efficiency and expressiveness is way more important for AI generated code. That's why Ruby was the best language in this test!
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@DelaneyGillilan If deploying and using native Apps on Phone and PC was not that sh***y, I would just build native Apps and be done. But their OS failed, that's why another OS on top (browser) is needed, where installing and using Apps is simple. It's just by opening a URL. If only OS were good
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If you want local first, build a native app. Trying to do so in a browser's local storage, lack of filesystem/syscalls/simd/etc is pure folly. If you want to make web apps, make web apps. I don't care if we are popular, I just care to get off the crazy train.
Hypermedia first
Ryan Carniato@RyanCarniato
I mean that is where we are at. Whether we are talking offline first, sync engines etc, these optimistic affordances. If you want to talk SPA this is where things are. You can fundamental disagree with it, but just how Marko couldn't convince people they didn't need a client side router. You have the same sort of challenge.
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I heard emf is bad for sleep so hear me out, why don't we build a bed but it's in a faraday cage
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@DelaneyGillilan @asilvadesigns Yes, Datastar looks amazing and a lot better than the alternatives, @DelaneyGillilan made very good points and made me rethink a bunch of things. I still have to process what we talked about and try it out for myself, I am looking forward to try it out on my next site
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@asilvadesigns For posterity, @dasohmoff and I had a great talk about the differences between web as a hypermedia client and as a deployment platform. Can't wait to see what he builds next!
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Just so others can see... You version doesn't follow the Tao and is relying on SPA like front end handling so I revised. Datastar allows you to keep most logic in the language of your choice. It's simpler than you think
gist.github.com/delaneyj/fc9c1…
DasOhmoff San@dasohmoff
@DelaneyGillilan 5: The code and content without split into multiple messages and images in case you want to copy it or view it in a single file or so: pastebin.com/Jj3gi7av
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@dasohmoff Join our Discord and let's have a real conversation
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@DelaneyGillilan I just watched the talk, it was a nice introduction, thanks :)
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@dasohmoff I think this talk is an amazing introduction vimeo.com/1124980036
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@DelaneyGillilan It kind of funny, because I am one of those people that actually dislikes SQL, and would use it as an example of why I dislike declarative stuff, because of me having to deal with it's huge queries and unclear effects, I guess people value different things :)
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@dasohmoff It's declarative nature is it's super power. Like SQL, declarative let's you show intent and leaves the how to the underlying engine.
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@DelaneyGillilan Yeah, I am actually doing some experiments with webasm and without using any libraries or runtimes to keep the build small. It's not great, but I will see what I can do. I like that my wasm code runs exactly the same on all machines, so that's cool
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@dasohmoff Then to that, raylib and wasm are fine if you don't want to play by the rules and norms of hypermedia
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@DelaneyGillilan 5: The code and content without split into multiple messages and images in case you want to copy it or view it in a single file or so: pastebin.com/Jj3gi7av
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@dasohmoff Then you are building it wrong imo. Show proof of the issues is we can't help. Datastar is about immediate mode in a language agnostic way.
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@DelaneyGillilan 4: (There is some comment text at the top of the images, which basically explains what I mean)
Just to be clear, I am of course only talking about the frontend code here
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@DelaneyGillilan To clarify, I agree in many cases state should live on the server. I am talking about all the other parts where state has to be local on the client, like interaction, layout, and transient UI behavior. That is where the declarative model still feels hard to reason about for me.
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@DelaneyGillilan Is your experience different? Have you found a way to make the declarative side feel as predictable as a procedural rendering loop?
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@DelaneyGillilan So even if other tooling solves data flow or backend interaction nicely, the underlying declarative model of the web still feels like the main source of friction to me.
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@DelaneyGillilan And to be clear, this is not about your framework specifically. I mean this more generally about the web stack. When something breaks, there is often no clear control flow to step through, and not even a proper debugger where I can follow execution line by line.
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@DelaneyGillilan On top of that, HTML and CSS still feel inconsistent across browsers and devices. Even today, things can render slightly differently or break in subtle ways depending on the environment.
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