tov 🇺🇸🇮🇱🇷🇺

Things I support: Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, Palantir, Anduril, & AIPAC

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 No, I never said that actually. Please quote where I did!

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 You've been saying it for a while, bruh. Anyway, can we be done? Your naive bullshit is making me want to vomit.

Literally what Obama achieved 11 years ago

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 When did I ever say anything remotely of that sort

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Well be honest, you’ve gone from “is Iran building a nuke?!” to “OMG, government are good and moral and full of puppy dogs and rainbows! How could anyone disagree?!?!!!!”

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 No I don’t, but you keep falling back to the most vague and useless position possible so you don’t have to defend anything of substance.

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 I guess you just missed this part: "Everything a government does is about incentives for its constituent parts." Do you need that explained or do you understand?

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Yeah lol that’s the point, it’s common sense

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 "A government is made up of people my man." Holy shit, your arguments are so banal.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Bro they literally founded the country on that narrative lmao. meforum.org/middle-east-qu…

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Is that what they believe? How would you know?

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 A government is made up of people my man. Some of those people may or may not be motivated by moral reasoning, and some of the people who influence those people may also have moral motivations to their beliefs. Is it that hard of a concept to grasp lmao

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 A government is not a guy and is incapable of "empathy." Everything a government does is about incentives for its constituent parts. We've been over this. Humans can have moral motivations.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 I’m glad you shared a story about yourself. If it’s true, that’s very interesting! But despite your attempts at obfuscation, I disagree that it boils down to mere perspective.

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Yeah, only farm animals believe in "terrorism." I did counter-terrorism in the USMC. It's the "terrorist" and the "freedom fighter" are a matter of perspective. You sure as fuck don't think Green Berets should stop recruiting "5th Columns" (terrorists) so miss me with that shit.

@era1521 @PtsdBarnum @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Yeah I figured but I kind of had fun with some of the thought experiments. I agree it’s a waste of time though and I need to sleep soon!

@eshtovbot @PtsdBarnum @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 He's just trolling. He keeps circling to water down the main point someone else has made. 😆 🤣 😂 i cant even remember what was the tweet that sparked this thread

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 I don’t expect my stories to convince you, it seems you struggle with empathy and are unable to grasp how other humans have motivations that differ from your own.

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 You mean you accept the claims of moral reasoning. I am more skeptical. Move on, this is boring and makes you sound like a little bitch throwing a tantrum because I remain unconvinced by your naive baby stories.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 And fund proxies while we allow them to build all the infrastructure necessary to build nukes in the future. I’m not sure if you disagree with that, but again you don’t seem to believe much of anything. (2/2)

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 1. It does not. Demonstrate how it does. 2. Irrelevant and subjective.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 There is overwhelming historical evidence and accounts of policies being fueled by moral reasoning and leaders implementing laws based on their own moral beliefs, but your failure to grasp this simple fact makes it impossible to circle back to the Iran point.

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 I don't even believe it was most. This is all irrelevant, btw. Congratulations, were talking about anything but Iran. "Do you believe that some governments and policies are more strongly influenced by morality than others?" No.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 You’re again focusing on one leaf on one tree and failing to see the forest.

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 And?

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Nobody said it’s all or nothing, you made that part up. Do you believe that some governments and policies are more strongly influenced by morality than others?

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 I said "yeah" as in I'm absolutely certain. Because I'd have to believe all those votes were cast for moral reasons. Which is absurdly unlikely.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 You’re not even making sense. White Brits weren’t enslaved.

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 "many people living there held genuine moral opposition to slavery" Right, like that aforementioned industrial nationalism. No one wants to do a 16 hour shift in the kid crushing factory for a nation that will just enslave you.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 And you still haven’t answered my question. Was the claim you made in the screenshot speculation? Yes or no.

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Yeah. Really, EVERY yeah vote from Parliament's 658 seats was on the basis of morality? These are the same people that tried to colonize half the planet. You'd have to be naive to believe that.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 So it was or was not speculation? Answer the question. Are you absolutely certain that Britain’s ending of the slave trade was done purely for pragmatic reasons?

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Maybe not if you have an absolute monarch. But even then the internal forces within the monarchy are exerting influence over the monarch. No matter what everyone down the line is thinking "what's in this for me?" Morality can be a factor but it's naive to think it's a motivator.

@PtsdBarnum @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 You made the strong claim that all of geopolitics was realpolitik and there is no moral component whatsoever. Was that also speculation?

@eshtovbot @era1521 @DowntownDil @esjesjesj @GregNice1228 Yep, and I have the integrity to admit it.