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@henrywinter Remember when you thought there was nobody on the planet who was a better footballer than Jorginho?

Congratulations to Bruno Fernandes voted Football Writers' Association Footballer of the Year. Superb for Manchester United in a tough season. I voted Declan Rice for driving Arsenal to within touching distance now of the Premier League & Champions League. The game’s about glory.

@Danopolitan @Joey2hats @mehdirhasan Or more accurately, you’ve proven yourself to not be worth wasting my time with because you are creating suppositions that I don’t agree with and then inferring them on me, and asking me to justify them. Tescos misses you pal

@herbiesaid @Joey2hats @mehdirhasan You’re lashing out cause you’re in a corner and can’t answer the question lol

Actually the UK doesn’t have a right to exist. Otherwise why would Scots have been able to have an independence referendum to break up the UK? Countries split up, and recognize, and disappear and reappear all the time. Czechoslovakia. Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia. Etc.

@Joey2hats @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan So can we focus just on what people do do then? Like when humans have agreed that other humans and, gulp, nations too have the right to exist, for example.

@herbiesaid @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan Well I guess humans could say things like the nation state or the UN or your local pub have a 'right to exist' but they haven't, including in the UN charter and Geneva convention - so they don't

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno If you think people identify with Tescos and would expect to other nations to militarily defend it, then good luck to you buddy.

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno Why?

@Danopolitan @Joey2hats @mehdirhasan Mate, you’re going on about Tescos on another thread, you’re done. You’re coming here to now ask questions that aren’t relevant. I’m finished with you, you’ve lost. Head back to Tescos.

@herbiesaid @Joey2hats @mehdirhasan What purpose would this serve? When should a nation state’s right to exist supersede the human rights granted in the UN charter or Geneva convention? When is it more meaningful to talk about states than people?

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno This is, I’m afraid, utter nonsense.

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno Tesco’s like the state, is an inanimate entity created by humans. I am comparing them to show you how meaningless the concept of an inanimate entities “rights to exist” is. They are only worthy of protection by virtue of their utility. Humans are worthy simply by being.

@Joey2hats @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan No, no and no. My question now : so if humans can say humans have the right to exist in law, what stops humans from saying nation states have the right to exist in law too, as detailed in the UN charter, Geneva convention etc?

@herbiesaid @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan From humans. Sure let's do a question exchange - did any of those things I mentioned previously have a 'right to exist' (twitter, the UN, your local pub)

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno Respectfully, what the fuck are you talking about

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno Does Tescos have a “right to exist”?

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno I don’t think it has the right to exist independent of the wishes of its people, and have never said it does.

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno You have explained that you think people have the right to create a state, and that they have the right to dissolve it. But not why a state should have its own “right” to exist, independently of the wishes of its people.

@Joey2hats @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan So if you think humans, as a rule, have the right to exist - where do those rights come from?

@herbiesaid @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan That is a good question! Generally yes, though many places feel you can lose that right as they have the death penalty, and a whole other bunch of myriad considerations like war etc that are probably too big for twitter's capabilities

@Joey2hats @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan I feel like I’m talking to someone who can’t grasp basic information. Answer my question : do you think humans have a right to exist?

@herbiesaid @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan No it doesn't. Things existing doesn't mean they have a right to exist - twitter/x, the UN, EU, your local pub do not have a 'right to exist'

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno Ok. This explains a lot, it did become clear a little while ago when you started talking in circles and missing basic points.

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno No, second language

@Joey2hats @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan Everything on the planet only has rights to exist until people decide they don’t want it anymore. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a period of time where people agree that things have rights.

@herbiesaid @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan I agree it's not complicated - just silly and ultimately wrong. 'States have the right to exist untill people decide they don't want it to exist anymore'. That sounds like you're saying the people have the right, not the state - why don't you just say that?

@Danopolitan @Joey2hats @mehdirhasan Ok let me ask you both the natural logical question: do people have the right to exist?

@Joey2hats @herbiesaid @mehdirhasan Bro is dying on this hill, there’s nothing we can do…

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno I have already explained this at length earlier in the thread.

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno What law says that state’s have a “right” to exist?

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno No, im asking you politely if English is your first language because its the only way I can understand why you keep talking yourself around in circles. Is English your first language?

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno You keep attacking grammar and spelling and then conveniently avoid ever defining your own position or owning up to incorrect presumptions:

@Joey2hats @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan Once a people decide to agree on a state existing and it is approved by the international community then (and only then) that state has a right to exist. If the people decide to disband it, then the state ceases to have that right. This isn’t complicated.

@herbiesaid @Danopolitan @mehdirhasan Not at all

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno There is no inalienable right for anything to exist without a law saying so. You say you are looking from a narrow and legal perspective, and then you start saying nonsense like this.

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno We don’t think state’s are inherently valuable, therefore we don’t grant them inalienable rights to exist. You still haven’t motivated what the purpose of such a guarantee would be.

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno I have to ask you again, genuine question with the best intention behind it; is English your first language?

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno Companies and NGO’s exist, not because they have that right as an entity, but because people have a right to form them. This isn’t a meaningless distinction.

@Danopolitan @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno I don’t believe in God because I’m an adult, so let’s put that to one side. States rights ARE backed by higher powers such as, but not limited to, The ICJ, The UN, NATO, Geneva Convention, ECOWAS.

@herbiesaid @WesleyC00135119 @mehdirhasan @owenjonesjourno Either a legal entity like a state or state-like entity guaranteeing rights backed by a legal use of force. God if you believe in him. Or inherent rights like human rights that are seen as inalienable; so these would ideally fall outside requiring a higher entity.