Jeroen Plink

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@jackwshepherd Great piece. Think the article gives the perfect nuance to the one liner systemen. GenAI can support drafting but is not the panacea for all issues with drafting (unlike in other areas: also a one-liner in need of nuance).

@TheTimeBlawg @inksters For simple documents possibly. For more complicated ones and/or suites of documents absolutely not

@jplink We have done that at @inksters. For most needs not much requirement beyond the first draft which is usually the final document.

"There is Harvey which everyone knows about so there is no need to speak about it" 👀 No one knows what it actually does and we should have someone from Harvey or maybe Allen & Overy telling us what it does do! #LegalIT23

@TheTimeBlawg The difference is that GenAI works out of the box for the most part whereas to get real value out of document automation one has to invest significant time in set up (and be able to code or quasi-code) and even then the value stops after the first draft mostly.

@jplink And underusage of GenAI in law might be a separate convo in 30 years time!

@TheTimeBlawg Having worked for Big UK law firm and Practical Law in UK and US respectfully disagree

@jplink Does not translate to in-house in UK. Law firms have many different legal departments within them in our parlance.

@jplink That was not disclosed! And use cases might be quite different in that environment.

@TheTimeBlawg Underusage of doc auto in general is a separate convo where we have more common ground. Big fan of doc auto

@jplink I was clearly referencing doc auto using existing tools compared to doc auto using GenAI. I do not believe there could be any competition. I understand this is an area where the US are far less developed than the UK? Although in general doc auto not embraced as it should be.

@TheTimeBlawg Think I am going to disengage now. I have an unfair advantage over you having seen the tools in action and the real productive gains. Would also encourage you to read up on benefits of retrieval augmented generation which solves some of the issues you raise. Have a good night

@jplink We see over and over again the PR from #BigLaw overinflating their tech capabilities.

@TheTimeBlawg That is right. I was flippant. You suggested to compare GenAI to document automation without being specific about the usecases. Doc auto based on GenAI has additional benefits compared to the rigid traditional hard coded tools so think a comparison favors newer tech

@jplink Document automation does not summarise though it produces.

@TheTimeBlawg I’d happily compare any GenAI tool doing summarization of large documents against document automation

@jplink Depends what you are comparing it with especially re document automation.

@TheTimeBlawg As a vendor with an interest in selling maybe. As a user less so

@jplink And there is always a reason to inflate to appear better than others. Harvey being a good example of that.

@TheTimeBlawg Having seen many of the leading applications in action (minus Harvey) I can assure you that the difference is night and day both in speed and accuracy.

@jplink And also to compare those % gains with what would be achieved with existing (non-AI) tools if implemented properly.

@TheTimeBlawg Why would a legal department or law firm spend any time substantiating its gains to others? They have no reason to inflate their gains but also no obligation to share their data with general public

@jplink Also would like to see such claims of % gains substantiated (which we probably never will due to data protection). Would be very interested to see the output and usefulness of it without detailed human review.

@TheTimeBlawg Different in US. Was at one last week where many of these were demonstrated. May be the case that the US is ahead of the UK probably because Casetext CoCounsel has been mostly limited to the US so far.

@jplink We are unfortunately not seeing these use cases demonstrated at #LegalTech conferences. I've been at several since May without any real life examples. Indeed today a panel of three firms all said they were forbidding or limiting ChatGPT use whilst they experimented with it.

@TheTimeBlawg From a different industry: read epicshare.org/perspectives/t…. No reason why many of the lessons here don’t apply in legal (and in fact they do).

@TheTimeBlawg Understand skepticism (we have all seen failure of blockchain in legal and lyingoverpromising startups) but there is concrete evidence of valid usecases and success of GENAI/LLM’s.