Piro

162 posts

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Piro

Piro

@piropro

Unity Developer / Technical Artist.

Katılım Mayıs 2014
36 Takip Edilen147 Takipçiler
Piro
Piro@piropro·
@Knights_Path @TaintedGrail_AR 𝖄𝖔𝖚 𝖉𝖔𝖓’𝖙 𝖍𝖆𝖙𝖊 𝖏𝖔𝖚𝖗𝖓𝖆𝖑𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖘 𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖚𝖌𝖍. 𝖄𝖔𝖚 𝖙𝖍𝖎𝖓𝖐 𝖞𝖔𝖚 𝖉𝖔 𝖇𝖚𝖙 𝖞𝖔𝖚 𝖉𝖔𝖓’𝖙
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Knight's Path
Knight's Path@Knights_Path·
“Wannabe Elder Scrolls” is a pretty pathetic headline. Funny how gaming journalism loves to praise every sloppy AAA release, but suddenly starts punching down when a smaller studio makes an ambitious RPG. @TaintedGrail_AR is a great, unique and well recieved RPG!
PC Gamer@pcgamer

Elder Scrolls wannabe Tainted Grail: The Fall of Avalon gets a 'huge' update overhauling its weaker third act with new locations, quests, enemies and more pcgamer.com/games/fps/elde…

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Jordan Cain
Jordan Cain@ThatNgonGuy·
@piropro @sheenaduquette I quickly (and terribly) made the low poly for this instance so yeah those areas are not ideal. I didn't really focus on the parts that weren't in question, so those are not great. The high poly is the version with quads on the left and ngons on the right
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Jordan Cain
Jordan Cain@ThatNgonGuy·
I remember there was some guy a while back who told me the ngons on this support weren't going to bake well. Right... about that.
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy would made lot of film people mad i think you seek other things in 3d, i wish you good luck in your future endeavours, i just hope we'll never have to work together, because i'd had to reject literally every mesh you presented. And topo is still bad, you can see it on zebra.
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy yes, if you put model in a bleak, non contrastic environment with no glossy material, a lot of things will pass - the idea is to make them pass in all environments, not only "the ones that makes it look good". And your text about "it looks good on film even if its ngon"
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Jordan Cain
Jordan Cain@ThatNgonGuy·
PSA: The presence of an ngon does not, by itself, create bad shading. Additionally, if you can't see a shading issue in a representative environment, ie, in the final game asset, in-engine (or the final shot in film), it's not a shading "issue". Hint: There is no issue here.
Piro@piropro

@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette If im not mistaken, these are screenshots from conversation from past, where you argued this is perfectly fine. I got paid to tell people theyre wrong, and sometimes i do it free at my place, but to improve you need to accept feedback on something being bad and that youre wrong

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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette whats up with this banding there? Should be flat. It looks better than i've expected, but I it might not be same model same model, considering the issues it has in places it didnt had before, did you used different high poly/low poly than presented before?
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette its not the same, you can see the topology of the "flat" surface that it bleeds to the place where the hole is. can you bake it to normalmap and check? Im curious. Or give me the mesh, I'll do it myself later.
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Jordan Cain
Jordan Cain@ThatNgonGuy·
@piropro @sheenaduquette You're pointing out literally the same thing on both sides. You're convinced it can't work and it's clouding your reasoning. I really don't know what to tell you that would make you see this. We are diametrically opposed and none of this makes any sense.
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@sheenaduquette @ThatNgonGuy i didnt even started to be hostile, thats first second, the examples shown arent speaking in favor so far There is no reason to learn something sub-par to correct methods, especially if results are worse, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Sheena Duquette
Sheena Duquette@sheenaduquette·
@piropro @ThatNgonGuy The irony is Jordan is the one who taught me how to see that. It’s literally what he’s been trying to show you as well, but instead of being open to learning you’ve been sort of hostile throughout this exchange. I think you value winning an argument over being properly educated.
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette You dont see the deformations of the grid where the ngon-topology happens after sub-d? Your left side now is done properly, right is still messed up. If you have the model-can you bake it to lowpoly and share the normalmap please? Im interested in the result on the *flat* surface
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@sheenaduquette @ThatNgonGuy tell that to the guy who started the thread, thats what i've been trying to show him whole time. He even just posted model that has strains on supposedly *flat* surface. just learn fundamentals first, then teach people, hopefully better techniques.
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Sheena Duquette
Sheena Duquette@sheenaduquette·
@piropro @ThatNgonGuy If you’re subdividing an ngon and it’s creating a strain, that means you aren’t visualizing where the subd poles and verts are going to land. Once you train yourself to see that, you’re able to utilize them effectively, like @ThatNgonGuy. It’s just a tool you can learn to use.
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette isnt flat, again, meaning that ngons arent fine. If youre happy with sub-par results, thats your choice, but it doesnt mean its "good" i hate twitter messages
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette i dont care if im being a dick if im correct. You may try to be one, but so far youre failing, and it'll end up in you apologising to me like 2 years ago for being wrong. youre making same arguments like then, and ignore fact that there issues on the zebra, meaning the surface
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette you dont see how it gets bent exactly where the topology is stretched? Make it correctly, with protecting the edges, and having THEN an ngon after you put a loop around it and compare sad
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@sheenaduquette @ThatNgonGuy and on flat surfaces theyre fine, which was the case in discussion. On curved, they create issues, as presented on images with topology - subdividing them will cause strain on surface, and it'll translate to how light reflects off it
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Sheena Duquette
Sheena Duquette@sheenaduquette·
@piropro @ThatNgonGuy ZBrush is actually very particular about geometry, especially when importing. Given your long history in the industry I guess I’m surprised you’d use that as an example. I can read just fine. Ngons also shade fine—if you understand how they subdivide.
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@sheenaduquette @ThatNgonGuy i dont use twitter and i dont get its threads zbrush was just an example of how you can use whatever garbage geometry you give it, and then sculpt on it. I've been talking about how ngons on curved surfaces are bad, and provided examples of how the normals get bent
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Sheena Duquette
Sheena Duquette@sheenaduquette·
@piropro @ThatNgonGuy Did you get lost? I thought you were explaining how ngons don’t work, but now you don’t want to. I guess I’ll try again: The border edges of an ngon influence the triangulation. How could you tell the difference between quads to tris vs ngons to tris, and how is one superior?
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@sheenaduquette @ThatNgonGuy this is different topic, i dont want to explain things in 140character messages what is your question exactly?
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Sheena Duquette
Sheena Duquette@sheenaduquette·
@piropro @ThatNgonGuy I’m not making any mistake, I’m just trying to follow your logic. Geometry isn’t important.. in ZBrush? So does the topology not actually matter, or does it only matter when you’re using it to prove a point? Which examples are you referring to that showcase these errors?
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette sad even without zebra check you can see how the topology is stretches. Do some tests, i cant explain visuals on 140 character limit.
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette im sorry but if you see this topology and dont know why it wouldnt work, then you get some fundamentals to catch on. We've been through it with your models and how they shade bad, just because your lighting setup doesnt show it, doesnt mean errors arent there
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@sheenaduquette @ThatNgonGuy i didnt said zbrush works on ngons, i was talking about geometry being not important there. Youre mistaking being upset for being correct about technical things - on the given examples, ngons will stretch the surface and create uneven normals, and then bad bakes.
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Sheena Duquette
Sheena Duquette@sheenaduquette·
@piropro @ThatNgonGuy ZBrush doesn’t work with ngons, which is one of the first things to learn about ngons. Secondly, knowledge is power: can you precisely explain at what point does the ngon cause an issue? If it bakes, if it renders, if it rigs, if it works.. why does that upset you so much?
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Piro
Piro@piropro·
@ThatNgonGuy @sheenaduquette its not, and it baffless me you dont see the issues with it please dont teach people garbage, especially if its related to sub-d, its ok if theyre zbrush blobs
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Jordan Cain
Jordan Cain@ThatNgonGuy·
@piropro @sheenaduquette Yup that's mine alright. But I was asking for examples from you. What you're showing here isn't the dunk you think it is. That example is still perfectly fine.
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