Chris

@danchodan Of the potential clients who I generally told did not qualify, nursing homes would argue with me the longest, because they “felt” the impacts, even if they generally weren’t quantifiable.

@danchodan I agree - that’s why I think you’d need a sympathetic court. Nursing homes are one of those industries where government orders were clearly “impactful” but not in a way that lends itself to the IRS test.

Michigan nursing home denied $3.6M of ERC. They now plan to appeal. Management noted to reporters that "some other nursing homes filed appeals, and the IRS offered settlements of 15%." So both IRS exam and appeals seem to take a dim view of this industry's qualifications.

@danchodan Otherwise you’re into a very subjective argument that would ultimately require a court finding that the 10% threshold in the guidance isn’t literal.

@danchodan Have talked with a lot of nursing homes as well and it’s very difficult. I think to be comfortable with IRS guidelines you need to have reduced residents (10% plus), and show that you were turning people away (i.e. that this was your “capacity” based on various restrictions).

@The7Line Will these also be available at the stadium on Wednesday? Looking like a hoodie might be helpful…

@NateSilver538 Your company's model currently shows a 50/50 odds Biden wins.

It's actually pretty rational to gradually ramp up the pressure on Biden until he takes the hint because him quitting on what seems like his own accord puts his successor in a better position and causes less collateral damage to his party.

@danchodan All I'm saying is that in some industries there was not the ability to easily quantify what % of services couldn't be provided based on government orders. Agreed that some businesses were certainly misled on the strength of their positions.

@themigs I doubt the business is even aware when a position contrary to the IRS guidance is taken by a mill. Perhaps some would proceed differently if they knew they would lose in audit/appeal and have to fight in court. Hard to imagine partially suspended means 91%+ able to operate.

ERC Mills not following IRS notices can expect a: 1. Loss in audit (IRS follows their own rules) 2. Loss in IRS appeal (IRS follows their own rules) 3. Loss in tax court (IRS notices are very generous. If a court looks past them to the law alone, partial suspension is tough).

@TheKron613 @danchodan @1momofcb This is one of the spots where the IRS clearly failed. The clarification of their guidance in summer '23 (nothing new to anyone who'd read it) could have been provided a year earlier and at least made it easier to show the mills were wrong.

@danchodan @1momofcb I do know that once the IRS stepped up their media campaign about the mills and the hazards of using them that many people starting getting cold feet. Had the IRS done that earlier when this really started becoming a craze it likely could have helped a bit.

Terrible take out there: The IRS created the ERC mess. The truth: The tsunami of false ERC claims is driven by the greed of mills and complicit businesses.

@danchodan They might turn ERC buyout companies into the new cottage industry, though. The waits for some companies are staggering.

To those upset about the ERC moratorium and seeming lack of IRS action - you just don't get it. Stopping payments was the biggest thing the IRS could do to stem the tide. By starving the mills for fees, they have stuck a big blow rather than shooting themselves in the foot.

@danchodan Doesn’t this leave an odd hole? The voluntary disclosure program specifically says to amend a return if you believe you’re due less than you claimed. The language here seems to preclude that.

This is interesting. Protective refund claims for ERC never seemed strong (what's the contingency affecting the claim?), but perhaps it wouldn't make a difference if cut off by this bill. congress.gov/congressional-…

@danchodan I don’t know what immediate would win, but I keep coming back to the idea of just using April 15, 2024 as the deadline for all. Easy fix.

👀 Immediate end to ERC

@danchodan The hours/receipts language in the Notice also specifically talks about which quarter to compare to, while the 10% test is less specific.

@danchodan That doesn’t have to be hours or receipts, although those are options. As you always point out, that’s a capacity question, and capacity is measured differently for different businesses.

Attention ERC auditors: You are not looking for 10% reductions in hours or receipts. You are looking for 10% reduction in ability to provide a good or service. (The hours/receipts element is the more than nominal portion test - not more than nominal effect test. We need both.)

@danchodan “The IRS issued updated guidance as of the September moratorium that states “if all your employees were able to telework during the pandemic and your business continued to operate, your business wasn’t suspended.” This is not updated guidance. This is in Notice 2021-20.

“Get as many deals through the door and let the IRS decide who was qualified,” as one former midlevel accounting and finance employee put it. cnbc.com/2023/10/27/how…

@TrevorDame This feels very WCW in a bad way.

Even if you just want to give Collision a super boost, you could've been promoting this date for weeks, could've made it a super special edition of the show, booked it in a major building in a major market. Instead, 3 days to Uncasville.

MJF/Omega is one of the biggest first time matches AEW has. That's a match that could, if built properly, main event Wembley, do a monster Dynamite #, sellout a big arena. Instead, they're running it on a random Sat at the Mohegan Sun in UNCASVILLE with 3 days to get the word out

@danchodan I agree, but would also like examples of what *does* qualify as a partial shutdown to help narrow that conversation.

Memo of FAQs on effects would be my pick. Give examples of companies with lots of "bad things due to covid" while listing every order in the state. But no real analysis. No ERC. Only a covid order causing reduced ability to provide a good/service matters. Rest is noise.

It's about time for another ERC GLAM. If you got to pick, what would it cover?

@EffyCohen1 @danchodan The deadline for all 2020 quarters is April 15, 2024.

@danchodan Does that mean the 3-year deadline of amending 941s is now pushed off? So technically on January 1st of 2024(assuming it reopens then), Businesses can now still submit for q3 of 2020?

🚨Big news: IRS will not process new ERC claims at least through the end of the year. They are trying to “disrupt the ecosystem” of the ERC mills.

@edzollars @danchodan Agreed - there's very little new in the various guidance from the last week if anyone's been paying attention.

@themigs @danchodan is being intentionally misleading in their statements. Or maybe both :-). 3/3

New ERC FAQs issued which echo recent IRS communications. irs.gov/coronavirus/fr…